The Mock Turtle

Bill Cosby is already 'lucky' that the statute of limitations has prevented his crimes being punished. The idea he should get off because he's old is infuriating.

Yes, I completely agree. I mean, he's already got off, really. He's got to 81 fucking years old without ever going to prison. Older than lots of people even live. It should just be a rest-of-life sentence.

He should absolutely spend however long he’s got left, incarcerated.

Well Phillip Green has just removed any question of doubt by using the old classic "just banter". He might as well just have thrown his hands in the air and yelled "YES! I ADMIT IT! I'm a sexist creep" The fact that he's so out of touch with how fucking unacceptable that defence is tells you everything you need to know really.

I have always thought PG is a totally abhorrent human being, more so after having had some exposure to him in my old job, but if the allegations of his misconduct are as detailed in the guardian (lingering hugs, calling women ‘sweetheart’, calling women fat, using racist language) then he’s absolutely as abhorrent as he always was and deserves none of his success. He should be publicly called out for his behaviour and there should absolutely be ramifications. However - it’s not really on the scale of Weinstein (or Cosby), is it? Am I the only one who thinks that those comparisons aren’t exactly accurate? I’m not defending him for a second but it doesn’t seem to me to be on the same scale - unless we haven’t heard it all in which case it maybe even be worse, of course.

I don't think we should be measuring this stuff on a scale, whereby some offenders are worse (or therefore, by definition, 'better') than others.

It's binary; either they did it or they didn't and any instance of it is abhorrent and unacceptable.

Agreed, Edith. I’m so impressed with Peter Hain for not choosing to protect a fellow man, considering that countless others must have known about it and not said anything.

Edith Bacon wrote: ↑Thu Sep 27, 2018 8:25 am #whyIdidntreport is making me so angry. Yet again, men are demanding that women justify themselves in order to be believed.

How about you just fucking accept the situation, fellas?

I've had a close relative turn her back on me for not reporting it sooner, I did so when I found out there were other victims besides myself, it hurts to be abandoned like that.

That's terrible, Kay. I'm sorry you had to go through both those things. Some people react so bizarrely and inappropriately to other people's experiences.

Kay, that’s awful. I’m sorry that happened to to you.

I’m absolutely thrilled with Peter Hain, too. He sounds like a proper, stand up type of person. The fact that his behaviour comes as a complete relief and surprise just shows the parlous state of my expectations when it comes to a lot of men, now. Urgh.

I agree that’s it’s time for zero fucking tolerance. This stuff is insidious and it informs so much of how women feel about themselves throughout their whole lives. Internalising all this bullshit and not even being able to tackle it head on when you realise because it’s just dismissed as “banter” or a “joke”. It’s normalising it to a point where women get attacked in the street in broad daylight for telling a man to fuck off for making an unwanted sexual advance. It all feeds the bigger sense of entitlement and rage that leads to more violent acts against women. Enough is fucking enough.

cluefree wrote: ↑Sun Oct 28, 2018 3:02 pm It’s normalising it to a point where women get attacked in the street in broad daylight for telling a man to fuck off for making an unwanted sexual advance.

Just reading that particular bit, i've never understood how, when a man tries to chat up a woman and she tells him to do one, why he won't take the hint :?

But something happened during the week that still has me puzzled and i still can't make any sense of it. I was on duty at a tube station i work at around 6pm chatting away to a female CSA and there was another guy on duty just floating around spare. It wasn't central London but an outlaying tunnel station. Anyway this young woman came up to me and asked for help as "This man is harassing me and won't leave me alone" (her words). I assumed it was someone she knew but straight away took her to my office with the female CSA to look after her and find out exactly what had happened away from this guy. I asked her what had happened (before i rang the police) and she told me she had never seen him before and did not know him. She said he stood opposite her on a busy train inches away from her face and facing her. She asked him to move but he just stared at her and tried to speak to her in Italian (she was Italian herself). She got off the train and he followed her and then on to another train and off again then followed her along a platform. She got off at my station which wasn't her own but she was a couple of stops away from her own station.

The guy i thought would have gone by now but he was watching me talk to her then watching as i picked up the phone to call the BTP (transport police). He could see her through the office window and began shouting in Italian across the ticket hall at her so my CSA moved her to the back of the office. I told the BTP his behaviour was erratic and getting worse and i needed them here asap. He then forced his way out of the gate and stood outside the station before walking away down a side street. The other member of staff then came in to the office and said he had gone but minutes later he was back at the gate and the other member of staff went towards the gate but this guy forced his way in and ran across the ticket hall and tried to get in to the office but it was locked. He then started shouting again in Italian at the window and he was almost in tears pleading with this girl who was now clearly distressed. Both myself and the female member of staff looking after her reassured her he won't get to her and that we would keep her safe. The other male member of staff (who is quite a big lad) positioned himself between this guy and the door so he couldn't kick it in. The female member of staff then took this girl in to a back office so he couldn't now see her. I was still on the phone to the BTP police and told them i needed the Met Police here now as this guy was clearly intent on getting at this girl and that both her and the staff were in immediate danger. The guy seeing he wasn't getting to her forced his way back out of the station before aiming a few well chosen words back at us and left the station. The male member of staff followed him outside to make sure he had left and rang the Met police on his mobile but again it seemed to get sent back to the BTP as a station incident.

The BTP turned up about 7 minutes later, didn't stop at the station and started driving up and down the road............ in the wrong direction. When they eventually came in to the station to speak to the girl i told them if they had stopped right away we could have directed them to where he had gone or they could have picked her up and she could have pointed him out. To be honest i was pretty pissed the way they had handled it. They knew they couldn't get there quick and it was an imminent danger situation so should have passed it to the Met but as usual they don't like to do that.

What i can't understand is what triggered this guy to act this way? It may well have been he was just a total nut case but, i'm sure someone will put me right here, it must be very rare for a person to have never seen someone before or know them and for it to produce such an extreme reaction. I'm sure there are people who get turned down and act aggressively but this seemed extreme. Even when we had her safe he wasn't giving in and i dread to think what would have happened if she didn't have the sense to seek help. I know where she lives and she would have had to have caught a bus right outside a very large woods after leaving the tube. She must have been terrified.

I was angry with the BTP after as this guy really needed catching.

It's not that rare. Some men react extremely badly to being rejected in any way.

A man forced his hands up between my friends legs when she was queuing for a tube ticket (many years ago), when she reacted badly, he followed her for ages shouting at her that she was an ugly slag and he wouldn't touch her with a barge pole. I can think of many other instances.

Some men not getting the reaction they feel they are entitled to cannot handle it. I don't know what was going on in the mind of this guy, but I wouldn't be surprised if he was outraged that she had dared to report him for harassing her and probably felt entitled to be allowed to justify himself. or something. The one thing I do know is that terrible behaviour like this is not so rare as to be in any way surprising.

Marth wrote: ↑Sun Oct 28, 2018 7:10 pm I don't know what was going on in the mind of this guy, but I wouldn't be surprised if he was outraged that she had dared to report him for harassing her and probably felt entitled to be allowed to justify himself. or something. The one thing I do know is that terrible behaviour like this is not so rare as to be in any way surprising.

Absolutely. He was probably shocked and outraged that he couldn’t do whatever he fancied to whichever woman he chose. That attitude is very common.

That poor woman. That sort of shit stays with you forever.

Yes. I might be wrong but I can well imagine his shouting involved calling her a liar for whatever she had said to you. Alongside whatever tirade of personal abuse he was aiming at her.

The righteous indignation is apparently a common trait amongst sex offenders, especially those known to their victim. It’s a red flag if someone pre-emptively goes to police to lay the groundwork of an alibi if they think their victim is likely to report them, e.g. “my lying stepdaughter has started making up these stories about me to get money out of me, I’m outraged and offended and need you to know in advance in case she falsely accuses me.”

Leap wrote: ↑Sun Oct 28, 2018 7:24 pm

The righteous indignation is apparently a common trait amongst sex offenders, especially those known to their victim. It’s a red flag if someone pre-emptively goes to police to lay the groundwork of an alibi if they think their victim is likely to report them, e.g. “my lying stepdaughter has started making up these stories about me to get money out of me, I’m outraged and offended and need you to know in advance in case she falsely accuses me.”

That's so horrifying.

Also thank you and the other members of staff for looking after her. It's reassuring to read, even if the BTP were useless.

Not entirely altruistic of Peter Hain.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/h ... 03476.html

That poor girl, Gizmo. it enrages me that men think it’s their right to intrude into a woman’s space and demand reactions from them.

North Yorkshire Police briefly aired this campaign on Twitter, before the resounding chorus of WTF?s made them take it down.

Seriously, though...WTF?