Plenty of Turtle

[Loralei]

I don't think you necessarily have to be more 'forward'(although it would dramatically increase your chances of success ;) ) but I do think you need to stop overcomplicating things by introducing other people into the equation and/or telling people you definitely don't like them when you do.

[Lily]

You might be onto something there. I'll admit that.

[Leap]

Yes, you do have to be careful not to go too far in the opposite direction because I know if I were in his position I would assume that all this chat of J means you are trying to telegraph that you are 100% NOT INTERESTED :flashing signs: :horns: :bells:

Remember you have no way of knowing if J and he would hit it off, so don't feel guilty about getting to know him better first, which is the path you would be on anyway after meeting someone nice whose company you enjoy. J can always be introduced later if you decide he's not your thing but could be hers, but you're truly not doing anyone a disservice in the meantime.

[Pepper]

What's the latest, Lily? I agree with the rest of the turtles, especially Leap. Go for it.

>< snip ><

[Lily]

Ach! Pepper, I came to respond to you as I haven't had a chance before now. I won't if you would rather I didn't, though?

He just responded he is up for it - I will drop him an email nearer the time. We do get on very well - he's intelligent, decent and he has me in fits of laughter - but that's true of so many people. That isn't a Sign of anything, alas.

[Pepper]

That would be ok Lily, thanks. I just felt a little bit exposed.

He sounds lovely. Just take things as they come, you're lovely too . Why isn't it a sign of anything? Don't close yourself off.

[Kleio]

Lily, you need to allow yourself to have a bit of fun.

I was hoping to come here with great news a few weeks ago. I had a guy who was practically perfect. I loved spending time with him, similar tastes in things but different enough to not be identical. Funny, good looking, kind etc. I got a feeling he wasn't truly single so I said it jokingly and he absolutely flipped then hasn't contacted me since so I think my gut feeling was right. It really hurt and I felt burned for a while.

However, there is possibly something on the horizon with someone from RL. I'm not over thinking it and he lives a few hours away so I'm just going with the flow. Although, I've only just found out he's 15 years my senior and I'm not sure if that's just too much (for me)

[Skips]

If you hadn't found out about the age difference how would you feel?

[Leap]

Oh that's interesting Kleio, why would the age be a deal breaker for you? Is it the differences in life experience/frames of reference or something else? Feel free not to answer, I know I'm being nosy.

I have my own thing that I think not sharing the same native language would've been a big issue for me, based purely on my mum's experience of the same, but I think a 15 year gap isn't so bad (for me).

Sorry about the other guy, but well done for listening to your instincts. If you ever needed confirmation he was't the right person for you regardless of the answer to your question, his childish response tells you everything you need to know.

[Lily]

The problem is Pepper that what I say about liking him, etc, and him liking me is the same the world over. A lot of people like me. I'm pretty inoffensive in real life. That doesn't mean anything, which is the buggeration of it.

I don't think you did anything wrong with your chap - but I don't trust those who say "I'm not like all the others" and stuff like that because... well I don't know, it just sounds like they might be. It's a cruel way for you to find out though. I am sorry.

The guy with Will's Real Name has started with us and of course he is fantastic. Warm, witty, very funny and on my wavelength - we keep coming out with the same things and having to say 'jinx'. I've told him he can stay in my flat while I'm on holiday and I said I'd move the gerbil out but he's keen to have Shinty with him. He certainly sounds single, but he is just most unlikely to be single because he is just so ace. I have a gradually developing crush - it's like a mosquito, I keep having to swat it. Tomorrow night after work he is coming round to learn how the flat works and meet Shinty. I am desperate to ask him to accompany me to see Annabelle: The Creation afterwards but I CAN'T. I feel so bloody depressed that I keep fancying the most unsuitable types.

Kleio, 15 years - I dunno, is that a big deal nowadays? I kind of think past the age of 36 we all mulch into one big soup of years where age doesn't matter too much.

[Luce]

No, the Pope is unsuitable. Someone gay is unsuitable! Why is this one unsuitable?! Other than wanting to look after a gerbil ( ) he seems lovely.

[H1ppychick]

Fuck's sake Lily, he sounds lovely. Give him a chance.

[Skips]

I agree, ask him to the cinema.

[Lily]

Unsuitable as in he is unlikely to feel the same way. I mean obviously I don't know for certain, and I'm not doing myself down when I say this - but the amount of men who like me with nothing more than friendly Like is very high. I don't know if I give off some musk which masks my womanity but just because I get on with someone a lot is no indicator that they would like to snog my face off and that is what I find a bit depressing. Because a lot of the time when you get on well with a member of the opposite sex it is seen as some sort of chemistry, and generally for me it isn't, men just see me as a friend, not a woman really. I would like to get out of that but I don't know how to!

I honestly think I'd have more luck with the Pope though I don't know how keen he is on rodents. He named himself after St Francis of Assisi though who is my favourite saint, so that is a good sign.

[Derek Nimmo]

I don't intend this meanly Lily, but I should imagine your insistence on setting your male friends up with other female friends, a resolute ability to deflect compliments and to self-denigrate and a fear of flirting to show that you're available are all probably the root cause of being friend-zoned.

[H1ppychick]

I think you are prone to the same type of behaviour I used to have, which was to fear expressing any possibility that someone would find you attractive in case it exposed you to some kind of ridicule or mockery if unrequited. As a result you overcompensate and completely desexualise all your interactions so that they don't think that there is any reciprocation of any feelings they might otherwise have, and they feel immediately friend-zoned so don't express them to you.

Sorry for the armchair psychology there, it's not intended to get at you at all. I think you just are not good at picking up on attraction from others or you subconsciously shut it down, it's not that it's not there, you are a complete fox.

[H1ppychick]

Or, what Derek said, more concisely and better.

[Lily]

That is absolutely it, Hippy. ABSOLUTELY it. Del has what I do and you have WHY I do it. I am so frightened of someone laughing at me and telling me I'm ugly (I know I'm not, and I know they won't) or being discomfited at least, or horrified at the most, by me expressing feelings of liking them that I would rather I didn't give them the opportunity. I don't know how to sexualise myself though! How do you do it? I don't flirt, I know that.

I could start by not deflecting compliments, I know that. So Guy Who Isn't Will said he was lost for words when I offered him my flat and he couldn't get over "my loveliness", which I thought was much as it's not like I'm paying for his training, so I said it wasn't that big a deal. So perhaps next time he says something nice I could say "You are welcome" and smile or something?

[George]

Lily, if my boyfriend or partner had agreed to stay in the flat of a single female colleague, and was going round of an evening to meet her gerbil - I'd think that was a bit weird. So I would put money on him being single and at least a little bit interested in you.

Take a chance. Ask him.

[Derek Nimmo]

Also, asking him to the cinema is not as if you're whipping out your ego onto the table and saying HERE, RIP ME APART AND REJECT ME AND EVERYTHING I STAND FOR.

It's just an invitation to the cinema, one person to another. It just opens the door to knowing each other better if you're both free, it does not mean that you're asking him to marry you and if he can't go or doesn't fancy that particular film it doesn't mean that you're the last woman on earth he'd want to be seen with. It's only a big deal if you make it a big deal.