Simon Baron-Cohen can stuff right off

[Derek Nimmo]

Oh god, please don't feel bad - "But I've got a condition!" complete with puppy eyes has become his default defence whenever he pisses me off (he is being thoroughly tongue in cheek :)) ).

I still refuse to accept it as OK - and will moan about it til the cows come home - whilst at the same time understanding that he's not just late / forgetful / disorganised because he can't be arsed and that I (or the matter at hand) aren't important to him.

[rosy]

May I ask about meltdowns, Bats and Smunder? Recently P had a difficult situation at work (a new boss for his boss who has changed some of the procedures, to universal anger) and he had a complete meltdown - crying, screaming, lashing out. It’s something that only happened once when he was a child and we treated it as a toddler tantrum then, but I didn’t realise until this thread that it’s probably another sign that he’s on the spectrum. Fortunately his manager seemed to understand and got him calmed down fairly quickly.

What I’m interested in chiefly is if either of you have any strategies for coping with meltdowns or heading them off before they start. He found it terribly embarrassing both at the time and afterwards, thinking that his colleagues would be judging him.

[smartiecat]

This is all so fascinating and I want to go and read all of the books right now. I have recently started to think that I may be autistic and/or have dyspraxia. I mentioned to to my best friend (that I used to live which) when her daughter was diagnosed with both recently in a half joking kind of way and she immediately agreed that she’s sure I do which has made me take my inklings a bit more seriously. I’d quite like to find out just to understand how much of things is “just” that I’m a massively anxious, socially inept introvert or am whether I am actually autistic. I need to think more about how to go about it really.

[Mountain Goat]

I just have to say how much I'm in awe of everyone that has to struggle with this. This and a couple of other recent conversations have really given me a smack in the face about how bloody easy I have it compared to a lot of people, in ways that I've never really considered before.

[smalex]

I just have to say how much I'm in awe of everyone that has to struggle with this. This and a couple of other recent conversations have really given me a smack in the face about how bloody easy I have it compared to a lot of people, in ways that I've never really considered before.

Yes. I've never considered I'm autistic, but only reading this thread has made me realise how not autistic I am, if that makes sense. I've been shy (in childhood), I'm naturally a bit introverted, but I don't think I ever realised to what degree life is SO much easier when you just 'get' all the things like eye contact and reading other people and feeling able to chip into conversations, not to mention all the rest.

[Bat Macdui]

Oh god, please don't feel bad - "But I've got a condition!" complete with puppy eyes has become his default defence whenever he pisses me off (he is being thoroughly tongue in cheek :)) ).

:lol:

See also, "I can't go to Tesco, I've got sensory issues." :puppy: :puppy: I got away with that for a week, and it was only a week because R is a total sap at heart. :))

There's some other stuff I want to post, will do later, but thank you sal. :))

[olive]

Thanks Derek, the stuff about B is really interesting!

I just have to say how much I'm in awe of everyone that has to struggle with this. This and a couple of other recent conversations have really given me a smack in the face about how bloody easy I have it compared to a lot of people, in ways that I've never really considered before.

Yes. I've never considered I'm autistic, but only reading this thread has made me realise how not autistic I am, if that makes sense. I've been shy (in childhood), I'm naturally a bit introverted, but I don't think I ever realised to what degree life is SO much easier when you just 'get' all the things like eye contact and reading other people and feeling able to chip into conversations, not to mention all the rest.

All of this really. T is very similar to me in terms of his personality traits and temperament; disorganised, little to no attention span, easily distracted, struggles to finish tasks yet it’s incredible to me that it’s in its simplest form my executive function, well functions and his doesn’t. None of these characteristics have held me back from doing anything but I can see the day to day and long term impact it does and will have on him.

I think Bats said something upthread about all of us having some autistic traits but the the difference being whether they negatively impact you which has really stuck with me.

[sally maclennane]

I think Bats said something upthread about autistic traits but the the difference being whether they negatively impact you which has really stuck with me.

I have said before that I'm quite convinced my dad has autism and I share some of his personality traits - being literal, persistence, impatient - yet, like you I don't think they have held me back. My dad also chose to procreate with a woman who is about as neurotypical as one can be, and also incredibly extrovert :lol: so I am a real mix of them both.

My cousin (dad's nephew) has autism and this was diagnosed in the 80s so pretty early compared to lots of people I think. My dad, his brother (my cousin's dad) and their father were all very similarly rigid people - my grandfather was obsessed with timings of meals etc. He HAD to have lunch at 1pm, not five to, not five past. He would also say that he couldn't get up from the table to get something once he'd sat down. My dad has no filter at all, he is really tactless and still manages to be so even though he can't actually speak! He would say blunt things eg about someone putting on weight and then get all huffy when pulled up for it "I'm just saying what you all said" Yes but not to the person themselves! When my mum's brother died at 28, he (dad) told my mum that it was worse for him than her because he was just getting to know my uncle, whereas my mum had known him all her life. That was before I was born but it absolutely makes me think he is autistic . He is also obsessive about sport, he will watch it endlessly and has encyclopaedic knowledge of things like football and boxing - he could tell you the goal scorers in the 1968 Scottish Cup final - and he will!

[kiwi]

Yes. I've never considered I'm autistic, but only reading this thread has made me realise how not autistic I am, if that makes sense. I've been shy (in childhood), I'm naturally a bit introverted, but I don't think I ever realised to what degree life is SO much easier when you just 'get' all the things like eye contact and reading other people and feeling able to chip into conversations, not to mention all the rest.

I understand what you mean smal. I'm not the best at socialising and I often feel awkward and sometimes out of place, but it's nothing compared to what is being described here. So just man up kiwi.

I had never thought of B being on the scale, but of course it makes perfect sense. :))

[Loralei]

I think Bats said something upthread about all of us having some autistic traits but the the difference being whether they negatively impact you which has really stuck with me.

Yes, me too. I am looking at J's single minded obsession with football (previously dinosaurs) in a different light, and he struggles a bit socially as he has difficulty reading other's reactions (ie when he tips from funny to annoying) but the first has no negative impact and the second isn't problematic enough (or sufficiently unusual for a 9 year old boy) for me to worry. But it is interesting to suddenly see this stuff.

[Shoe]

All of these comments adds to why I think we're all on a spectrum somewhere rather than there being 2, or more, very specific types of brain. I think at the moment a typical / average brain seems like the norm but the more we learn about different thinking patterns and 'conditions' (that's the wrong word, sorry, I can't think of the correct one!) the more we will see that we are all just different shades of the same thing. On this thread alone look how many people can see or make sense of certain traits in someone close to them.

Talking to my dad sometimes makes me sad because even now at 68 he says he's never felt like anyone really got him or understood how he thought. I know he's struggled with it in various ways over the years and he obviously still thinks about it. He's managed fine and I hope had a pretty decent life but it's always made me sad that he's lived his whole life feeling like he's other in some way because his brain doesn't automatically think exactly the way other peoples' do. He's also had lots of OCD tendencies for as long as I can remember but would never dream of doing anything about it as he just thinks it's normal.

[Smunder Woman]

I think, if I hadn't chosen this PhD topic (and encouraged by talking to Bats) I would have just accepted that I'm probably autistic and left it at that. I had a really shit time with it when I was younger, including a fair amount of gender-based stuff, but I've learned how to live as me now. That sounds really wanky, but hopefully makes sense. My main issue just now is the sheer exhaustion involved in just being, and my inability to be a decent housekeeper, meaning I get stressed about the mess and then overwhelmed and don't know where to start, so go to sleep and avoid it all :))

[Froozy]

Thank you for this thread, Bats, and Smunder. I had never thought about the degrees of effect different traits could have and the whole thread has been fascinating and enlightening. Like others, I haven’t appreciated just how easy my traits have meant life is for me, as they tend to be in tune with how the world turns. Another form of privilege really.

ETA: Oh, and I have sat in at least 2 training sessions and been told how women’s symptoms of heart attack are atypical without batting an eye. I need to pay more attention.

[dizzyd]

I'm so sorry I missed all this. I really didn't have a clue Bats.
I think you're both amazing for being so open and like a lot of others it's really made me think

[Bat Macdui]

What I’m interested in chiefly is if either of you have any strategies for coping with meltdowns or heading them off before they start. He found it terribly embarrassing both at the time and afterwards, thinking that his colleagues would be judging him.

It's as individual as the person. :)) Do more of what makes you calm/chilled, do less of what leads to stress and overwhelm.

My main issue just now is the sheer exhaustion involved in just being,

This. The most frustrating thing is the limitation on what I can do. I need a lottery win then I can lounge about in silence at home in between doing what I want to do. Well, I am working up to changing my working life, and there's a whole other thread in there where you all (hopefully) tell me that shit executive function is not an enormous barrier to managing being self employed.

[Smunder Woman]

I've been self employed for 9 years, so you can totally do it :))

[Mountain Goat]

I'm disorganised and manage ok. On the plus side, you no longer have to think about what to wear or getting to the station on time. On the negative side is tax returns (and other accounting), which give me an embolism annually because I am totally not on top of that stuff, but I pay an accountant and that helps. In terms of managing workload/clients, I don't find it much different to being employed, but that's going to vary.

[Shoe]

My main issue just now is the sheer exhaustion involved in just being,

This. The most frustrating thing is the limitation on what I can do. I need a lottery win then I can lounge about in silence at home in between doing what I want to do.

I feel like this most of the time too, I think mine is probably just dealing with my anxiety related but who really knows. :ella:

[Bat Macdui]

I think if I know more about how it works, I will probably panic less. I will get round to thread, probably when I come back from holidays, but I circle it round in my head and come back to the fact I need three lists and a set of post-its to leave the house, trusting me with self employment seems.... ambitious. :lol:

Though I also take the Goat point about not having to leave the house, which would help immensely. :))

[Smunder Woman]

I think if I know more about how it works, I will probably panic less. I will get round to thread, probably when I come back from holidays, but I circle it round in my head and come back to the fact I need three lists and a set of post-its to leave the house, trusting me with self employment seems.... ambitious. :lol:

Though I also take the Goat point about not having to leave the house, which would help immensely. :))

It's actually really easy. You register as self employed, and then fill in your self assessment at the end of the year. If you issue invoices and get paid online, it's even easier. Not having to leave the house is a benefit, but there's also a risk of going totally feral :))