Wills

[nineseven]

In the unlikely event that my brother AND both nephews are no longer around, I left everything to my SIL as I have run out of younger relatives.

[Lily]

Mr & Mrs Bruv haven't written it into their wills yet but we've discussed it and I am guardian of the niblings. Smal, you've made me think about gently reminding them as I can see that causing some difficulties with SIL's family.

What a depressing thread. It's important though!

What about charities? I opted for Tree Aid as I give to that regularly, but I'm wondering about changing it or adding another one.

[Luce]

Does your SIL have any siblings, Lily? If so, I’d get that agreed and written down because, rightly or wrongly, your SIL may have strong feelings that her children should stay in her side of the family.

[sally maclennane]

Speaking of which, this has reminded me that something was said a while ago that made me believe MIL and stepFIL dont have a will, or at least not an up to date one. I really hope they've done one now, or that's a can of worms we'll be left with at some point.

I need to nag my mum about this. Before my SD died, they agreed that when mum dies, the sale of their house will be split in two. Mum's half will be split 3 ways between me and my two brothers, SD wanted his to go to his grandchildren. He has 8 grandchildren but for some reason, he decided that instead of it being spilt 8 ways, it would be split 3 ways. So each of his daughters has 2 kids, but his son has 4 kids so "his" third will be split into 4 whereas his sisters thirds will each be split into 2 (still with me?).

I suspect my mum's influence in this,she doesn't like his son, with good reason TBF but I think it will cause ructions when it comes out. Also, it would have been much better if SD had put all this in a will, rather than it being my mum's say so. I really want her to get it all put in a will now, so that when the shit inevitably hits the fan, I can at least wave a legal document around.

[smalex]

Families are complicated anyway but when you add step families in...

[sally maclennane]

Families are complicated anyway but when you add step families in...

Exactly! Plus SDs son is very entitled and I think will lose his shit, although to be fair, I actually think he'd have a point. Why should his kids get less because they're one of four, rather than one of two as their cousins are? My mum's justification (when I said this) was that their other grandparents are well off but that's not really the point

[Ella77]

I've taken that into account with the division of my "estate" though. S's siblings stand to inherit a lot more than mine do, so mine will get a proportionally higher share (1/4 each instead of 1/5). That said it seems strange to do that to grandchildren, who may not inherit anything else for 30 years.

[Edith Bacon]

The other, well-off grandparents might have left everything to a donkey sanctuary in their will

It’s* all so fraught with potential for upset, what with step-relatives and in-laws who might feel they have equal claim over children and estates. It makes my head hurt.

*wills generally, not your mum’s situation in particular, Sal.

[ParisGal]

Not suggesting it's any kind of moral truth, but in France the normal thing would be for each child to inherit an equal share, and if the child has already died, then their share would be split between their descendants. When MrPG's granny died, her surviving 3 children got 1/4 each, and the deceased uncle's only child got the other 1/4, with no other grandchildren inheriting.

It looks like inheritance tax in the UK is based on the total the deceased person leaves, rather than circumstances of the person who inherits https://www.gov.uk/inheritance-tax

[Zoomer]

I actually think he'd have a point. Why should his kids get less because they're one of four, rather than one of two as their cousins are?

I actually think your Mum's way is fairest. The son chose to have 4 kids. Why should his siblings' children lose out because of that?

I must do mine. It's fairly simple - half to J and half to A, and I've already asked my sister to have A if J and I both cark it. I have nothing written down though.

[smalex]

I can see it both ways- if you're basically trying to split your estate equally between your children, I can see a case for the grandchildren ending up with uneven shares. But on the other hand, if you see it as a direct gift to your grandchildren, why does it matter how many siblings they have?

[Edith Bacon]

I can see it both ways too. My Dad’s will states that his estate is to be split equally between me and my brother following payment of bequests to the grandchildren. Now, as it happens, all the grandchildren are my children as my brother has none, so my brother’s half of the estate is less than it would otherwise be purely because of my choices to have children.

I’ve heard awful stories about siblings receiving different amounts due to their partners’ salaries being perceived as better or worse. Basically, the wills were used to try and level the financial situations when, in reality, no one can really know what will happen in the future or how a couples finances operate behind closed doors.

[smalex]

I nearly posted this earlier, but very long story short, I had a friend whose mum died. For a start, mum had a partner (that my friend and her sister really didn't like) who remained in the house (it was her mums house) and it was all very awkward. Then it turned out the mum had paid for my friend's sister's house, unbeknown to my friend, which was supposed to be equalled out from the will, but they couldn't, because the partner was living in the house that would've been sold and split unequally between the sisters to make up for it. THEN, very tragically not long afterwards, the sister was killed, so my friend owns the house the sister's husband was living in, he then embarked on a really ill advised grief striken relationship and moved someone new in. It was such a massive mess of crap.

[Derek Nimmo]

Ooof Smal - massive mess is an understatement.

Yes, I was conscious that one sister has two kids, and the other one has four (and three grandchildren...so far, should imagine there'll be more by the time I kick the bucket) when i split my estate between them, but took the view that my siblings are my closest relations and that's that.

IIRC, the way my Dad wrote his was that everything would go to my Mum, but if she had died first it would be a quarter each for me and the sisters, and a quarter to be split between all grandchildren / great grandchildren. Which is an equitable way to do it I suppose - hmmm, maybe I should rethink

[rosy]

My will splits my estate into 5 (not that I have much to leave); one share to each of the children and the other share to be split equally between the grandchildren. That way nobody is penalised for having more or fewer (or no) children, and all the grandchildren are treated equally. Right now the children get about tenner each if they are lucky and the grandchildren less than a fiver each, but who knows what the future brings?

[Ella77]

I actually think he'd have a point. Why should his kids get less because they're one of four, rather than one of two as their cousins are?

I actually think your Mum's way is fairest. The son chose to have 4 kids. Why should his siblings' children lose out because of that?

Good point.

[Lily]

Does your SIL have any siblings, Lily? If so, I’d get that agreed and written down because, rightly or wrongly, your SIL may have strong feelings that her children should stay in her side of the family.

Yes, and she does - but not in that way!

Smal, that's awful. What happened in the end?

[Luce]

Does your SIL have any siblings, Lily? If so, I’d get that agreed and written down because, rightly or wrongly, your SIL may have strong feelings that her children should stay in her side of the family.

Yes, and she does - but not in that way!

Smal, that's awful. What happened in the end?

Ah, even more reason to get it written down! Especially as the courts may naturally favour the child staying in the mother's side of the family. SIL needs to get that down in writing, pronto!

[Lily]

Indeed, I will mention it again when I tell them I've done mine.

[overthehill]

If my SIL and brother give £ to my parents and niblings, they won't get taxed on that will they?

It's never occurred to me to cut my SIL out of it, but I suppose I ought to leave everything to my brother to be on the safe side. My grandparents divided their estate between their 3 children but left bequests to the inlaws.

I don't think anyone would raise an eyebrow if you left everything to your brother. It's a safer option, as you have no idea what the future holds for your brother and SIL as a couple, years (one would hope ) down the road. Re tax, I think it depends on the amount he/they might give to your parents. I know you're allowed to give a certain amount per year, tax free.

Assuming I'm correct (and I may not be), if the amount he/they might want to give your parents was over that threshold, your Executors may be able to side-step any potential tax liability anyway, by getting a solicitor to draw up a legal deed, allowing for the distribution of part of his/their inheritance to your parents. (We're going to have to do this for my sister.)