Pistorius trial

[Lily]

I wondered if he didn't because he knew it sounded absurd. It's the only thing that might make sense. Why kill your girlfriend for no reason when you know you'd get caught, when you have no history of violence? It's just mad. Mad and awful.

[aliceinwonderland]

The stats on domestic violence suggest that it's a frighteningly frequent occurrence, Lily.

[Korill]

Indeed. Many cases of domestic violence/spousal homicide involve people with no records of previous violence. My cousin stabbed his girlfriend to death 11 years ago, David never had a record or previous occurence of violence before. He and I went to school together. He was a bit slow, but never violent as far as we knew.

[Dáire]

I wondered if he didn't because he knew it sounded absurd. It's the only thing that might make sense. Why kill your girlfriend for no reason when you know you'd get caught, when you have no history of violence? It's just mad. Mad and awful.

The murder of female partners is even more popular in SA than home invasion. I believe they have some of the highest rape and female homicide rate in the world.

Why kill your girlfriend for no reason when you know you'd get caught...

Two women die at the hands of their partners in the UK every day too. If people were worried about needing a good reason and being caught, there'd be no crime at all.

[sally maclennane]

I can't get my head round this at all, I honestly think the DV angle is the most likely, I just don't understand waking up on hearing a noise, knowing that your partner was there, and not checking that they'd made the noise/that they were ok.

I am lucky enough never to have faced this situation but I cannot imagine that having a gun would help me at all. I'm so cack handed that I'd shoot myself. Moreover, I couldn't live with myself if I shot and killed someone, even if they were a burglar. In this country certainly, most burglary is opportunistic, it's likely to be some stupid kid/addict who sees a chance and takes it.

My ex and I were discussing this once and his theory was that I would probably corner the burglar and talk at him for hours about why he chose to do it, what the consequences were and how there were always other options "He'd probably shoot himself just to get a bit of peace"

[Lily]

Oh ... I guess then it must have been deliberate. Oof.

[Brier]

Knowing what little I know about SA from the family we have there, and knowing that were I confronted with a potential attacker with a weapon at my disposal I would absolutely strike first and ask questions later, I'm on the fence edging towards believing it's genuinely a tragic accident. It wasn't the first time he'd thought there was an intruder in his home and wasn't the first time he'd reacted 0-100 like that.

[Livilla]

The things that gets me is that there really is no good outcome here. A young woman has lost her life and a family has lost their much loved daughter for ever. Either he did deliberately kill her, which is horrible, or it was a dreadful accident, which is also just horrible, especially for him. He's pretty much destroyed his life, whichever way it goes. The trial is just feeding the public's curiosity for a scandal.

[Dáire]

Oh ... I guess then it must have been deliberate. Oof.

That he deliberately shot someone isn't up for debate. Who he thought he was shooting is.

[Lily]

Yes I meant that he deliberately shot her.

I have no idea what to think. I can't get my head around the fact that he would have done this on purpose but it happens perhaps more than I thought.

[smalex]

The things that gets me is that there really is no good outcome here. A young woman has lost her life and a family has lost their much loved daughter for ever. Either he did deliberately kill her, which is horrible, or it was a dreadful accident, which is also just horrible, especially for him. He's pretty much destroyed his life, whichever way it goes. The trial is just feeding the public's curiosity for a scandal.

Yes. I know I sound like a broken record, but aside from the real tragedy of the young woman who died, in a split second he utterly destroyed his own life. He could've spent several more years doing something he loved, and then retired, a (presumably) rich and adored hero, nationally and internationally. Its the stuff dreams are made of. And its all gone.

[Rosa]

That's why I'm not closely following the trial, Liv. I got completely drawn in to the original proceedings last year, but it left me feeling very uncomfortable. Oscar's life is destroyed either way, and whatever the verdict, I can't imagine it will give Reeva's family much comfort.

[Dáire]

Yes I meant that he deliberately shot her.

Why is that he thought it was an intruder so hard to believe, though? It's a well-worn scenario in gun-owning communities.

I can't get my head around the fact that he would have done this on purpose but it happens perhaps more than I thought.

But also, yes. Domestic violence and murder is pretty common too, so it's also not a surprising outcome. Three women died on the night Reeva died, killed by their partners. Who knows what the daily rate is in SA. Females heavily outnumber males as victims of homicide in the UK and probably the US, and statistically it's highly likely to be partners or male relatives.

[Topcat]

I reckon that Daire knows more about this than she is letting on.

[Lily]

Well I thought it made sense, but it doesn't seem to to everyone else (well most people!) so I figured I must be wrong.

[Rosa]

Where were you on the morning of 14th February 2013, Daire?

[Dáire]

No, I think I'm just in this really odd position where I find his version believable, and I'm just watching the case unfold. A bit of evidence either way would sway me. The bit I'm not getting is why his version is considered as unbelievable as unicorns. I've seen the "I thought it was a burglar" defence loads in crime stuff - do I read too much crime stuff? I'm starting to think so! - so to see it for the 9000th time is hardly worthy of note. But for this one case, it seems to be a totally unthinkable, ludicrous defence. I guess I'm just trying to figure out why.

I got accused of being a friend of the McCanns once :lol: People were posting (another forum) about "the bloodstained room!!1" and "they totally did it, I saw it in a dream" and I was pretty open-minded, but saying "There's no evidence they did it yet" or "The room wasn't bloodstained..." I wasn't necessarily fighting their corner, just pointing out the evidence wasn't there (yet) and that "they looked well dodgy" isn't necessarily adequate reason to lynch them.

It's just interesting how this case differs from other near-identical cases, and I guess it's his high profile. If Barry the Texan Gun Nut shot his wife thinking she was a burglar, it probably wouldn't even make the news.

[smalex]

Yes I meant that he deliberately shot her.

Why is that he thought it was an intruder so hard to believe, though? It's a well-worn scenario in gun-owning communities.

I think I (most people) struggle with the exact situation in this case, though. He was seemingly not aware of his partner leaving the bed to go to the bathroom, but soon afterwards, was awake and so completely convinced that there was an intruder in the bathroom (a bathroom in which he more or less had the 'intruder' cornered) and he was under threat, that he grabbed a gun and shot through the bathroom door 4 times? But without checking that his partner was ok/in bed (something that would've taken seconds to do).

'i thought it was an intruder' could be completely believable in some circumstances but in this it just doesn't seem realistic. Even if it was realistic, its so impulsive its totally reckless.

[la Fée Verte]

I think I (most people) struggle with the exact situation in this case, though. He was seemingly not aware of his partner leaving the bed to go to the bathroom, but soon afterwards, was awake and so completely convinced that there was an intruder in the bathroom (a bathroom in which he more or less had the 'intruder' cornered) and he was under threat, that he grabbed a gun and shot through the bathroom door 4 times? But without checking that his partner was ok/in bed (something that would've taken seconds to do).

I think his version, to be fair, is that he got up, she was in bed, he went to the balcony to bring in a fan and close the curtains, and that she must have gone to the loo in that time.

[Dáire]

Oh, I totally agree on the ridiculous level of impulsiveness and recklessness. His fear coupled with a trigger-happy nature was an accident waiting to happen. I'm certainly not saying he's a good guy or anything. I bet even the nuttiest gun nut is shouting "always confirm the target and you always check where the family is!" at the TV.