Harvey Weinstein-the start of something?

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Turtle Bean
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Re: Harvey Weinstein-the start of something?

Post by Turtle Bean »

I bet the female bosses were no worse than the male, women are just held to different standards.
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ParisGal
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Re: Harvey Weinstein-the start of something?

Post by ParisGal »

Exactly, TB, it always comes back to "Plenty of women aren't perfect, so why should men change anything?"
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Morganna
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Re: Harvey Weinstein-the start of something?

Post by Morganna »

Turtle Bean wrote: Tue Feb 27, 2018 10:33 amI bet the female bosses were no worse than the male, women are just held to different standards.
Yes. How does anyone get to be a manager without having a competitive streak? Do they just happen to get an interview and beat the other applicants?
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Turtle Bean
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Re: Harvey Weinstein-the start of something?

Post by Turtle Bean »

Plus, I have an inarticulate issue with the sisterhood thing. I do want to do it myself, it's the type of person I am, I like to feel part of a community, I'm a joiner. But you don't expect a man to automatically support all his male colleagues so why should a woman have to pay any attention to anything other than her own career, if that's what she wants to do? I mean, obviously women are often disadvantaged in the workplace so it's good if we can help each other, but not all women are naturally helpful, sociable or friendly in the same way not all men are and no one is under any obligation. It's a bit like a person of colours achievements making them a role model. What if they just want to do well for themselves rather than always representing their 'people'. Bugs me.
Derek Nimmo
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Re: Harvey Weinstein-the start of something?

Post by Derek Nimmo »

A good manager shouldn't be the slightest bit competitive! Alas, there are very few good ones (male or female) about. It's a really under-valued skillset, and (most) companies give so little training when you become one.

(Sorry, o/t I know.)
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Tyla
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Re: Harvey Weinstein-the start of something?

Post by Tyla »

I could count on one hand the number of good managers I've had, of either sex. Most people get to that level because of length of employment/seniority rather than any actual management skill, and as Derek says, receive very little training or support.
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Kenickie
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Re: Harvey Weinstein-the start of something?

Post by Kenickie »

I think it's a combination of things: obviously women can be arseholes/bad managers too, but they're also held to a higher/different standard.

I don't think you need to like all female colleagues, and so it's fine to hate individual female bosses, but not to agree with stuff like 'women can't manage a team properly', 'all female bosses are complete bitches' etc.
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Kenickie
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Re: Harvey Weinstein-the start of something?

Post by Kenickie »

For the record, the worst bosses I've had were male and it seems to be more prevalent in my experience due to them being much more likely to be promoted way beyond their capabilities.
If your back's against the wall, turn around and write on it.
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Lily
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Re: Harvey Weinstein-the start of something?

Post by Lily »

Derek Nimmo wrote: Tue Feb 27, 2018 11:27 am A good manager shouldn't be the slightest bit competitive! Alas, there are very few good ones (male or female) about. It's a really under-valued skillset, and (most) companies give so little training when you become one.

(Sorry, o/t I know.)
This is so true - a company I know is suffering hugely because of this at present.

Not defending nasty people but why should women have to stick together because we're all women? I understand it's "the sisterhood' but that then puts the onus on women to not only struggle against patriarchy AND have to put up with knobby women to boot for no other reason other than their gender.

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Ella77
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Re: Harvey Weinstein-the start of something?

Post by Ella77 »

Kenickie wrote: Tue Feb 27, 2018 11:51 am For the record, the worst bosses I've had were male and it seems to be more prevalent in my experience due to them being much more likely to be promoted way beyond their capabilities.
Bingo.
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Heebie Jeebie
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Re: Harvey Weinstein-the start of something?

Post by Heebie Jeebie »

I'm not actually against sticking together a little until equality is achieved, but we definitely shouldn't be actively running down other women collectively. Men don't - you'd never see a load of men randomly discussing on Facebook how they have all found that male managers/hairdressers/chefs etc were less good on account of being male.
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Panda
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Re: Harvey Weinstein-the start of something?

Post by Panda »

Exactly Heebie.

I was invited on to a local radio discussion recently :humble: and the amount of people ringing in to say how rubbish women were in the workplace - they gossip, they are lazy, they are bitchy yadda yadda yadda.

I kept saying back that some people are bad managers, some people are good managers, just like some people gossip and some people are lazy - gender bears no relation on this. I then asked why we didn’t put male managers under the same scrutiny. Apparently I am part of the problem according to the (old, white) bloke on the panel :)
smalex
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Re: Harvey Weinstein-the start of something?

Post by smalex »

Its so frustrating we're not afforded the luxury of being shit at anything.
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Lily
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Re: Harvey Weinstein-the start of something?

Post by Lily »

How did that bloke justify that you were 'part of the problem'?
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Ella77
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Re: Harvey Weinstein-the start of something?

Post by Ella77 »

smalex wrote: Tue Feb 27, 2018 3:26 pm Its so frustrating we're not afforded the luxury of being shit at anything.
That's exactly it. I think people of colour sometimes experience a similar issue in that everything they do is decreed to be representative of the whole "group".
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Lovely Me
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Re: Harvey Weinstein-the start of something?

Post by Lovely Me »

"part of the problem"? Fuck him. Women have the same right as he does to exist, work, and just be without (old, white) blokes thinking they have a right to scrutinise our every move.
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Re: Harvey Weinstein-the start of something?

Post by Squirrel »

Did anyone see the piece about Mohamed Al Fayed on Channel 4 News last night? It was absolutely vile, and anyone who has always thought he sets their creep-dar off would be 100% right. I'm hoping that with all the allegations recently, this is the exactly the sort of thing that I hope will stop happening, or at least happen a lot less, and women will feel more empowered to speak out if it does.

Sorry for the garbled post, I can't seem to get my sentences properly arranged today.

Prepare to be disgusted, but not surprised:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/0 ... om-claims/
Edith Bacon
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Re: Harvey Weinstein-the start of something?

Post by Edith Bacon »

#whyIdidntreport is making me so angry. Yet again, men are demanding that women justify themselves in order to be believed.

How about you just fucking accept the situation, fellas? :verm:
Ella77
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Re: Harvey Weinstein-the start of something?

Post by Ella77 »

Because I suspect most men have crossed the line a bit (or a lot) and know it.

I was pleased to see that Bill Cosby got a custodial sentence.
Edith Bacon
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Re: Harvey Weinstein-the start of something?

Post by Edith Bacon »

Yes, that was good to see. I saw something on twitter about how men who commit these crimes are either ‘too old’ (Cosby) or ‘too young/full of potential’ (Brock Turner) to be forced to serve genuinely meaningful sentences. And it’s true! Always, excuses for men. Before, during and after this heinous behaviour.
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