The Mock Turtle

I bet the female bosses were no worse than the male, women are just held to different standards.

Exactly, TB, it always comes back to "Plenty of women aren't perfect, so why should men change anything?"

Turtle Bean wrote: ↑Tue Feb 27, 2018 10:33 amI bet the female bosses were no worse than the male, women are just held to different standards.

Yes. How does anyone get to be a manager without having a competitive streak? Do they just happen to get an interview and beat the other applicants?

Plus, I have an inarticulate issue with the sisterhood thing. I do want to do it myself, it's the type of person I am, I like to feel part of a community, I'm a joiner. But you don't expect a man to automatically support all his male colleagues so why should a woman have to pay any attention to anything other than her own career, if that's what she wants to do? I mean, obviously women are often disadvantaged in the workplace so it's good if we can help each other, but not all women are naturally helpful, sociable or friendly in the same way not all men are and no one is under any obligation. It's a bit like a person of colours achievements making them a role model. What if they just want to do well for themselves rather than always representing their 'people'. Bugs me.

A good manager shouldn't be the slightest bit competitive! Alas, there are very few good ones (male or female) about. It's a really under-valued skillset, and (most) companies give so little training when you become one.

(Sorry, o/t I know.)

I could count on one hand the number of good managers I've had, of either sex. Most people get to that level because of length of employment/seniority rather than any actual management skill, and as Derek says, receive very little training or support.

I think it's a combination of things: obviously women can be arseholes/bad managers too, but they're also held to a higher/different standard.

I don't think you need to like all female colleagues, and so it's fine to hate individual female bosses, but not to agree with stuff like 'women can't manage a team properly', 'all female bosses are complete bitches' etc.

For the record, the worst bosses I've had were male and it seems to be more prevalent in my experience due to them being much more likely to be promoted way beyond their capabilities.

Derek Nimmo wrote: ↑Tue Feb 27, 2018 11:27 am A good manager shouldn't be the slightest bit competitive! Alas, there are very few good ones (male or female) about. It's a really under-valued skillset, and (most) companies give so little training when you become one.

(Sorry, o/t I know.)

This is so true - a company I know is suffering hugely because of this at present.

Not defending nasty people but why should women have to stick together because we're all women? I understand it's "the sisterhood' but that then puts the onus on women to not only struggle against patriarchy AND have to put up with knobby women to boot for no other reason other than their gender.

Kenickie wrote: ↑Tue Feb 27, 2018 11:51 am For the record, the worst bosses I've had were male and it seems to be more prevalent in my experience due to them being much more likely to be promoted way beyond their capabilities.

Bingo.

I'm not actually against sticking together a little until equality is achieved, but we definitely shouldn't be actively running down other women collectively. Men don't - you'd never see a load of men randomly discussing on Facebook how they have all found that male managers/hairdressers/chefs etc were less good on account of being male.

Exactly Heebie.

I was invited on to a local radio discussion recently and the amount of people ringing in to say how rubbish women were in the workplace - they gossip, they are lazy, they are bitchy yadda yadda yadda.

I kept saying back that some people are bad managers, some people are good managers, just like some people gossip and some people are lazy - gender bears no relation on this. I then asked why we didn’t put male managers under the same scrutiny. Apparently I am part of the problem according to the (old, white) bloke on the panel

Its so frustrating we're not afforded the luxury of being shit at anything.

How did that bloke justify that you were 'part of the problem'?

smalex wrote: ↑Tue Feb 27, 2018 3:26 pm Its so frustrating we're not afforded the luxury of being shit at anything.

That's exactly it. I think people of colour sometimes experience a similar issue in that everything they do is decreed to be representative of the whole "group".

"part of the problem"? Fuck him. Women have the same right as he does to exist, work, and just be without (old, white) blokes thinking they have a right to scrutinise our every move.

Did anyone see the piece about Mohamed Al Fayed on Channel 4 News last night? It was absolutely vile, and anyone who has always thought he sets their creep-dar off would be 100% right. I'm hoping that with all the allegations recently, this is the exactly the sort of thing that I hope will stop happening, or at least happen a lot less, and women will feel more empowered to speak out if it does.

Sorry for the garbled post, I can't seem to get my sentences properly arranged today.

Prepare to be disgusted, but not surprised:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/0 ... om-claims/

#whyIdidntreport is making me so angry. Yet again, men are demanding that women justify themselves in order to be believed.

How about you just fucking accept the situation, fellas?

Because I suspect most men have crossed the line a bit (or a lot) and know it.

I was pleased to see that Bill Cosby got a custodial sentence.

Yes, that was good to see. I saw something on twitter about how men who commit these crimes are either ‘too old’ (Cosby) or ‘too young/full of potential’ (Brock Turner) to be forced to serve genuinely meaningful sentences. And it’s true! Always, excuses for men. Before, during and after this heinous behaviour.