"May You Live In Interesting Times": Brexit 2019

[Rosa]

That's disgusting.

[Bat Macdui]

On the plus side, a pro-Brexiteer lobbed an egg at Corbyn today.

Massive cheeky request: does anyone have Times access and fancy c&ping the Luciana Berger interview, please? I've exhausted my freebies again.

[overthehill]

If you're a FB friend of mine, this might have popped up in your newsfeed. In which case, I apologise. Unreservedly. Another friend of mine had commented on a half-baked pro-Brexit post that was espousing the theory that the BBC was pro-EU and therefore deliberately scaremongering and supressing 'good news' about Brexit. Anyway, the post popped up in my newsfeed and I made the rookie error of responding - without noticing the name of the page where the post originated. MY GOD! The anger and bile that came back was unreal, accompanied by a particularly charming meme telling me I was a "fucking helmet". Well, fair do's. I might be. Apparently, I have no understanding of democracy and Britain is actually going to do brilliantly outside the EU.

Of course, I backed down immediately ... explaining that the problem with the BBC was probably that it listened too much to the experts that everyone else had had enough of. And then immediately blocked the page and turned off all notifications. But, ouch! I had strayed into Conspiracy-Theory-Central. The friend responsible is a lorry-driver and not a particular fan of the EU but, even so, not a Leaver either. His was the only other not-particularly-supportive comment on the whole thread, as far as I could see. These people live in a parallel universe.

[Bendywendywoo]

I strayed onto a Leave page and it was horrifying. Full of lies and bile and utter utter ignorance. The internet has a lot to answer for

[Mountain Goat]

Yes. This made up version of the Lisbon Treaty they all somehow believe that would take 2 minutes to fact check.

And this pervasive refusal to look at facts and to just believe everything is great. None of us know what will happen but the refusal to even consider that there is a chance things might not be perfect worries me. As a country, where is our emotional resilience? We're a nation of toddlers terrified that Santa isn't real.

[Texaco Shirley]

Dare I ask what the leave pages are claiming about the Lisbon treaty?

[Mountain Goat]

They claim it has a whole heap of clauses that kick in in either 2020 or 2022 that force us to join the Euro and the EU Army and the EU becomes a federal state with no member countries having any autonomy, more or less. There's a million versions and they all vary but that's the jist of it.

This is a good link:

https://twitter.com/stevepeers/status/1 ... 84?lang=en

It's totally fucking loop the loop.

[rosy]

Fucking hell. It really is all a game to them.

Christ on a fucking ten-speed crutch. It isn't quite burning £20 notes in front of homeless people, but it's equally blind to what is moral and right. Are these people really so out of touch with the general public, and what can be done about it?

And why the hell is there not a credible opposition? I am so disillusioned with Corbyn and his anti-Semitic cronies.

[Texaco Shirley]

They claim it has a whole heap of clauses that kick in in either 2020 or 2022 that force us to join the Euro and the EU Army and the EU becomes a federal state with no member countries having any autonomy, more or less. There's a million versions and they all vary but that's the jist of it.

This is a good link:

https://twitter.com/stevepeers/status/1 ... 84?lang=en

It's totally fucking loop the loop.

Oh yes, I do remember reading about a compulsory EU army. I must have blanked it from my memory.

[Topcat]

14 Conservative members have been suspended for Islamaphobia.

It's now official, we are run by racist, clueless cunts.

[Topcat]

I

[Ella77]

It’s a sign of the times that my first thought was well, at least *they* suspend their racists.

[Mountain Goat]

I don't know what their source is and whether there is any truth in it, but Sky are reporting that the govt are secretly planning to remove most of the tariffs we charge, thus virtually killing off our manufacturing and agriculture sectors, presumably.

https://news.sky.com/story/brexit-gover ... m=referral

[Chicky]

Does anyone feel like the current scaremongering about no deal (car manufacturers leaving the U.K., delays to cancer treatments and drugs etc etc) is government propaganda to get MPs to back May’s deal instead of no deal?

[Topcat]

It's certainly crossed my mind that these firms are being offered further concessions by coming out and saying such things, yes.

And I wouldn't put it past May, either.

In other news :

FB_IMG_1551825548060.jpg

*sigh*

[Bat Macdui]

Does anyone feel like the current scaremongering about no deal (car manufacturers leaving the U.K., delays to cancer treatments and drugs etc etc) is government propaganda to get MPs to back May’s deal instead of no deal?

No. There's too many reports from too many autonomous organisations. The government hasn't the power to compel all (any?) of them to fall into line in this way. The car industry is really going. You also have to remember that if you look at government option - No Deal or May's Deal, neither of them are any good. May's Deal gives a two year transition period but still commits us to exiting the single market and customs union. The car industry can't work without reciprocal arrangement that is as good as both of them, and that seems unlikely. So yes, they're frightened by cliff edge, but also, if it goes to May's Deal, they're getting twitchy because then would then be trusting this government to make the required arrangements within two years. Manufacturing capacity and costs are estimated far in advance of two years. And even if they don't build over here (eg Kia ) they still sell, service and repair. So they need a constant stream of parts that in the main get imported from across the EU. They can't operate as well with additional tariffs.

Then you look at the other people who've come out 'scaremongering' - the Bank of England, the CBI, the BMC. They're not agents of government or even quasi-governmental in most cases.

[Mountain Goat]

Yes. Also I haven't seen much (in reputable media anyway) that isn't a fairly measured assessment of potential impact scenarios. I'm sure it's in May's interests (assuming she actually wants her deal to go through, and I've given up assuming anything) to push people away from no deal, but if she had much control over these reports they'd have surely started sooner and have been more widespread.

[smalex]

I actually think they're toning down what they say because they get such horrendous amounts of vitriol from Brexiteers, leave voters and brexit-leaning media, that they think its counter productive to say it with any more strength.

[Mountain Goat]

I agree. Something relatively mild is more likely to get through to people who are determined that everything will be ok. Anything stronger is just auto Project Fear.

[Skips]

Nope, my mum is still in complete denial about the impact this is going to have and looks at me with a smirky smile (that makes me want to punch her) whenever I mention any of this. She has an answer for everything and firmly believes I am over-reacting. I know she is also poking me with a stick a bit at the moment, so I'm trying to limit my time with her (the cost of blueberries has gone up and she can't see that increases are coming ahead of brexit; but they were imported last week at a lower price :woteva: )