Ho ho ho! Merry Election 2019?

[Luce]

Honestly, Alan, I don't know how else to phrase 'why' though? I'm not sure if wanting to understand is the same as 'pulling apart'. I think people are being painfully polite

[Tsu]

Okay, I asked him and he said:

If you'd have given me an option to fix the EU's many flaws I'd have gone for that but I've yet to be presented with a credible way that we can fix these whilst remaining a member. I wanted a left wing exit and maybe have got a Norway style deal. Basically I like free trade and free movement but dislike the EU government for its huge democratic deficit and how it has imposed austerity on smaller nations like Greece.

Pre the 1992 Maastricht treaty I liked the EU but since then it has developed into an undemocratic political institution which exists to protect big business.

It's complicated with strong arguments for and against it and benefits and negatives of membership.
She's right that most young people do want to remain.I accept I'm a minority.

I also think there's a very credible argument to say flaws exist but maybe the good outweighs the bad and leaving doesn't fix the bad either.
And maybe I would vote differently now I've seen how Brexit has gone. But i feel my criticisms remain valid
It's not a definitive answer I know.

[Tsu]

Honestly, Alan, I don't know how else to phrase 'why' though? I'm not sure if wanting to understand is the same as 'pulling apart'. I think people are being painfully polite

Give me a chance, I'm not in front of a desk any more and my son works where he can't take his phone.

[Luce]

Honestly, Alan, I don't know how else to phrase 'why' though? I'm not sure if wanting to understand is the same as 'pulling apart'. I think people are being painfully polite

Give me a chance, I'm not in front of a desk any more and my son works where he can't take his phone.

Eh? My response was to Alan, not to try and rush you.

Edit; thank you, that was a credible and well thought answer and remarkably similar to what my mum says - although she is against free movement. I don’t necessarily agree with lots of it but I wish so strongly that more Leave people were like that.

It still doesn’t tell me what perceived benefits we’ll get from leaving but I can appreciate the ‘rock/hard place’ argument.

[ParisGal]

I can understand his Leave viewpoint (although I don't really feel the EU's any less democratic than the UK or French systems of government for example). I'm surprised he was so hopeful that the UK (under a Conservative-lead government in particular) would make a left-wing exit though.

I suppose in general I can easily understand people's gripes with Remain / Labour, it's just very difficult to understand why they thought the alternative was better.

[Luce]

Oh sorry, please can I ask him another question? Does he think all the warnings and Operation Yellowhammer etc are all massively exaggerated and everything will be fine OR does he think that it will be absolutely catastrophic BUT worth it? Thank you and sorry to use you as a go-between!

[Tsu]

Oh sorry, please can I ask him another question? Does he think all the warnings and Operation Yellowhammer etc are all massively exaggerated and everything will be fine OR does he think that it will be absolutely catastrophic BUT worth it? Thank you and sorry to use you as a go-between!

Here you go:


I don't know enough to have an informed opinion as I'm not an economist but yellowhammer was about a no deal Brexit. Looks like we're leaving with Boris's deal so the stuff in that could be ignored. I guess the next step is to see if they can get a trade deal with the EU.

As Boris's deal only covers the transition period to do with leaving. I do think it's in the EU's interest to strike some sort of deal.
I think most economists will tell you though that no deal will be as good as the one we had. Again, I'm no expert.

I preferred a Norway style deal as it keeps us in economic union and continues freedom of movement. If I were an MP I wouldn't vote for Boris's deal.

I only wish to leave the political side of the EU. Not the free trade / free movement part of it. So I'm what the papers might call a soft Brexiteer.

[Lily]

Honestly, Alan, I don't know how else to phrase 'why' though? I'm not sure if wanting to understand is the same as 'pulling apart'. I think people are being painfully polite

I wasn't painfully polite. I just asked the question politely; you say that like it's a bad thing.

Thank you Tsu for asking him.

[Tsu]

You're welcome, Lily.

[Lily]

I can understand his Leave viewpoint (although I don't really feel the EU's any less democratic than the UK or French systems of government for example). I'm surprised he was so hopeful that the UK (under a Conservative-lead government in particular) would make a left-wing exit though.

This is a really stupid question - but if anyone wants to be painfully polite in their response, that would be appreciated ;) - what do you (generic) see as a left-wing or a right-wing exit?

Apparently over the last year or so I have become left-wing, which I wasn't aware I was. I didn't think I was any wing, really. If I am anything, it's the parson's nose. Are we all one or the other? What if you're not any wing?

I was reading about the Whigs and wishing they still existed as I feel I would have got on well with them. They too seem to be closer to the breastbone than a wing.

[Luce]

That’s so helpful and completely fascinating, Tsu, thank you.

Lily, I’ve no idea why you thought I was talking about you there.

[Lily]

Because I was the only one who was asking the question. Or maybe I was the only one being polite!

I have seen "soft Brexit" mooted as an option several times and if we get that perhaps there is some chance things will be OK. However it will then mean Boris goes down in history as having been the mastermind who came up with it. I think I'd rather the whole thing went to pot.

[Tsu]

That’s so helpful and completely fascinating, Tsu, thank you.

Lily, I’ve no idea why you thought I was talking about you there.

This was his front room window last week.

[Lily]

Loving his work.

[Luce]

I feel a bit stymied about what to say to that picture for fear of looking like I'm being mean about Tories, now!

[Mountain Goat]

Thanks Tsu/Tsu's son for that - it's interesting and totally reasonable and I appreciate you both taking the time and effort, especially given the context.

[sally maclennane]

Thanks Tsu, was he totally baffled by the questions? Or is he used to the internet asking questions via his mum?

[Tsu]

He's very laid back and knows I speak to a load of virtual internet wierdos.. ;)

[smalex]

Thanks Tsu. I don't agree with him, but his opinions are at the (only) end of the spectrum I can understand at all, even if I can't agree. It was very refreshing to have some understanding that there were positives to EU membership, and that the scenario for Brexit we'll end up with isn't what he wanted.

[smalex]

It does also make me reflect on how I probably overly romanticise my view of the EU. For most of my life I actually didn't much care about being in the EU. Not that I thought it was bad, I just didn't think about it at all. It certainly wasn't the panacea for all ills, which I've a tendency to see it as now it's being taken away.