Isn’t the point that you join and hope to influence them moving out of this state?
I have joined and would love Jess Philips to be the next leader.
This won't happen without fundamental change in the party. That is why people will be joining and voting. That's the whole point (that, and fundamental change in other ways also)
Yes of course, with another leader we hopefully won't have to do that. Change will only come from within.
Same.
I think this, I think it might need one to purge then one to rebuild. BUT. Times are weird and things may move very fast in 5 years so I might be wrong. I am also in the Jess Philips camp but if we're looking at potential appeal to a very broad church, clean and ambitious, I would point out Dan Jarvis got re-elected.
Change from within is not bollocks. far from it. Change will only happen from within, using the actual membership (not just the shouty tossers on FB who probably are not even members) The members can force those voices at the top to speak out via our CLPS and conference. We are not just voting fodder.Topcat wrote: ↑Tue Dec 17, 2019 8:52 pm
Change from within is mostly bollocks though I'm afraid. Unless that party is actually rotten to the core (which I don't believe it is) those who need to work to stamp this sort of shit out (and remove any hint of it from the Conservative attack dogs grasp at the next election) at the top of the party need to be making their voices heard sooner rather than later and put an end to it.
I suspect you're right in terms of being elected Labour leader. But I do think that Labour prime ministers tend to get elected if they look like Conservatives. I would probably vote Keir on that basis, but would his unambiguous Remainism alienate the people he is trying to win back?Pippedydeadeye wrote: ↑Tue Dec 17, 2019 8:29 pm I’d totally love Jess Phillips as leader. And Keir Starmer, but I think the time of the white man is past at the moment for Labour.
I wholeheartedly agree with all of this. I have maintained my membership throughout, in the hope of getting the chance to vote Corbyn out, so electing a decent successor will have to do.