The Mock Turtle

Join the party and vote Roma, it’s the only way. I feel exactly the same myself but attempting to prevent another 5 years of Corbynesque leadership is worth the pain of rejoining to me.

Roma wrote: ↑Fri Jan 03, 2020 11:14 am I’m conflicted. I want to support any opposition to the Tories, but I’m still so angry with the Labour Party for the mess they’ve made with the election/ Brexit. I’m not sure if I can support them now and really would only want to see Jess Phillips or Keir Starmer as new Leader and I’m not likely that is.

The thing is, the momentum/far left vote will be split. Ian Lavery is attracting the loonies with RLB standing for the less-loony-but-still-ideologically-driven. There is no clear continuity candidate since Laura Pidock ( ) lost her seat.

I am not sure about Jess Phillips. I like her a lot, and I really think Labour need a woman, but I think Kier Starmer might play better with voters. I could live with them both but I am conscious of splitting the reasonable-vote.

But, yes, join and vote. I'm pretty sure you only have until Jan 20th to do it.

Ruby wrote: ↑Fri Jan 03, 2020 1:45 pm I am not sure about Jess Phillips. I like her a lot, and I really think Labour need a woman, but I think Kier Starmer might play better with voters. I could live with them both but I am conscious of splitting the reasonable-vote.

Joined yesterday. R is reluctant as we won't have the chance to vote in another election but my view was that, until 2023, we are still entitled to vote, so let's use this opportunity to vote for a new opposition leader, while we can.

I also think that Keir Starmer is a more realistic prospect than Jess Phillips. Though I think she'd be a breath of fresh air to the Party.

Ruby wrote: ↑Fri Jan 03, 2020 1:45 pm I am not sure about Jess Phillips. I like her a lot, and I really think Labour need a woman, but I think Kier Starmer might play better with voters. I could live with them both but I am conscious of splitting the reasonable-vote.

Part of me wants to 'save' Jess Phillips until after the hard work with Momentum has been done.

Starmer went to leigh the other day and went down quite well, apparently.

Bat Macdui wrote: ↑Fri Jan 03, 2020 3:32 pm Part of me wants to 'save' Jess Phillips until after the hard work with Momentum has been done.

This is my thinking. Also, she's bloody brilliant in opposition and I think she can achieve more in the short term without the conciliatory compromises that might be required of the party leader (which might actually just be repeating what you said, now I think about it )

Any thoughts on joining the party vs. becoming a registered supporter? https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/po ... party-will

I'd join. I'm not sure how much being a registered supporter is but it was £25 last time. If you set up a DD it's only slightly more expensive to have full membership and you could always cancel it a month or so after you have voted. There are also other ways, through affiliates, that Marth knows about.

Lavery has declared that he won't stand, but will support Rebecca Long Bailey.

Anyone had any further thoughts about who to vote for? I am remaining open at this point and am in watch and wait mode.

Jess Phillips announced that she'd stand while she was in Grimsby, which scored well with me. My local MP has announced that she's getting behind Lisa Nandy. Not in a human shield way.

Jess Philips is being a bit weird on self-id/women’s rights though.

Is she now?! What have I missed?

She has said, in the past, that she finds the claims of Women's Place UK to be entirely reasonable but has also said she support GRC reform (though not full self-id I don't think). She's probably in the same place with it as a lot of women i.e. acknowledging that it's a bit shit for trans people whilst saying that some women's places need to be protected. But in doing that, she's managed to piss off both sides.

No main women MPs will talk out against self ID , though I believe she did say something mild, earning her a lot of abuse

She’s against the spousal veto, which (despite the terrible name) doesn’t mean that a spouse can veto their spouse changing gender, it means that that they would be able to have a no-fault divorce in the event of said transitioning, I think. I think it’s the confusing name, but much as I do (genuinely) like her on the whole, I think she’s very... green in some areas.

Thanks. I think I'm ok with that, at least to the extent that I even know what I think on the subject. But it's something you're going to lose support over whatever you say really isn't it? No nuanced thought allowed.

I think I’m going Keir. I think he has the best chance of winning and has the most support in the party outside the Corbynites and the most support outside the party. Plus he talked an awful lot of sense about Brexit. If it’s transferable vote then I’ll put Jess Phillips second.

Having rejoined so that I can vote, I now don’t know who to vote for . I like Starmer, but I think we need someone less associated with the last campaign, and I would like to see someone northern, who has a grasp of some of the issues that lost so many seats up here, and the will to address them.

I realise that there are huge contradictions there, though. It shouldn’t be about where you’re from, or your gender, and in many ways it was the LP that stood for class and gender equality.

Phillips might not even make it into the ballot . RLB will be pushed forward, and with Lavery not standing they are making sure that the vote isn’t split. Mcdonnell strongly endorsed RLB yesterday.

Yes, I have concerns about the non-Corbyn vote being split, too. I think Starmer has sufficiently broad appeal not to suffer for his association with the current regime, especially given his clear (and sometimes opposing) Brexit stance, but I do feel it's time for a female party leader.

I think I'm really waiting to see who I need to vote for to beat RLB at this point. It's anyone-but-Boris again, and look how well that went.