smalex wrote: ↑Mon Apr 13, 2020 8:45 am
I have fantasies where everything is rebuilt, but better, more equity of wealth and real determination to pursue solutions to climate change. But yeah. It seems like a wild fantasy. As the NYT article said, after the depression the US got the new deal but Europe got Hitler.
There are already a lot of people predicting a massive swing toward more insular nationalism in Europe, which quite often doesn't end well. National governments are horrified to discover how reliant they are on China when it comes to the crunch, because we all swapped out manufacturing for knowledge economy and we don't make anything anymore. That's a bit sweeping, but mostly right. Nationalist governments can swing more to the socialist than right wing, but they also swing more authoritarian.
smalex wrote: ↑Mon Apr 13, 2020 8:45 am
I have fantasies where everything is rebuilt, but better, more equity of wealth and real determination to pursue solutions to climate change. But yeah. It seems like a wild fantasy. As the NYT article said, after the depression the US got the new deal but Europe got Hitler.
There are already a lot of people predicting a massive swing toward more insular nationalism in Europe, which quite often doesn't end well. National governments are horrified to discover how reliant they are on China when it comes to the crunch, because we all swapped out manufacturing for knowledge economy and we don't make anything anymore. That's a bit sweeping, but mostly right. Nationalist governments can swing more to the socialist than right wing, but they also swing more authoritarian.
Well, I guess the EU has basically shut up shop,in essence, with no plan as to how theyll open up borders or free trade, freedom of movement again. Nationalism has been on the rise/simmering well of late anyway. Its quite precarious
The EU isn't doing brilliantly at the moment but they're not just Freedom of Movement etc. There's lots of people talking about a kind of new Marshall Plan. Which is where you will see the Remainer position get really precarious, as all our economic argument for rejoining/remaining is blown out of the water when we're suddenly one of the richer of 28 nations who need to massively bail out Greece and Italy and Eastern Europe.
Last edited by Bat Macdui on Mon Apr 13, 2020 9:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
Is anyone still hoping we might remain? if I hadn't given up hoping for some positive solution to brexit before, I have now. We'll quietly slide off with no deal by the end of the year and itll probably not even matter much.
I feel like I start everything with 'impossible to call'. It's down to the UK government to ask for an extension. Fuck knows if they will. Fuck knows where we'll be on that by October. *shrugs wildly*
cluefree wrote: ↑Mon Apr 13, 2020 8:47 am
I can never forget how somebody once described him as looking like someone had ironed Gordon Ramsay.
I will never be able to unsee this.
Stop this! You are ruining my crush.
There really does need to be a way to bring back parliament as soon as possible because Peston holding the government to account from his front room isn’t working out.
cluefree wrote: ↑Mon Apr 13, 2020 8:47 am
I can never forget how somebody once described him as looking like someone had ironed Gordon Ramsay.
I will never be able to unsee this.
Stop this! You are ruining my crush.
There really does need to be a way to bring back parliament as soon as possible because Peston holding the government to account from his front room isn’t working out.
Bat Macdui wrote: ↑Mon Apr 13, 2020 8:13 am
I honestly don't know the answer to this either. But I am damn well not giving over my data on an NHS app based on self identification of symptoms and not related to any testing as all of that is massive bollocks. And then this is further complicated by the fact that there just isn't enough of an evidence base on immunity yet anyway. This article is handy.
We don't have an accurate antibody test. We don't know how long immunity might last. And we don't know that even if antibodies stop you from becoming ill whether they are enough to stop you harbouring the virus and spreading it to others.
I've long thought that the only realistic way out of this is what they're calling enhanced shielding in that article (isolating the elderly and vulnerable and letting everyone back out) . But I don't know how they would possibly be able to communicate this after scaring people so thoroughly in order to keep them indoors.
Last edited by Montana on Mon Apr 13, 2020 10:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
smalex wrote: ↑Mon Apr 13, 2020 9:01 am
Is anyone still hoping we might remain? if I hadn't given up hoping for some positive solution to brexit before, I have now. We'll quietly slide off with no deal by the end of the year and itll probably not even matter much.
Yes, at the outset of this I thought there was the tiny possibility that the EU would shine at dealing with this with the remote possibility of a swing in enough of public opinion to be influential. But they haven't unfortunately and I can't see anyone will be willing to stick their political neck out to say anything even vaguely Remainy. And I'm sure Tory/Leavers are saving up a lot of "I told you sos" for once the worst of the CV crisis is over.
I don't understand the testing thing. Why, why are we not doing it? Is it money? A plan to let vast swathes of the population die to save money? Incompetence? I just don't understand.
I will never be able to unsee this.
