Ollie Robinson Tweets

[Derek Nimmo]

I don't know about that - I think that the English Cricket Board, an organisation whose players represent this country, absolutely should be mindful of how this reflects on them as an organisation and us as a country, and follow through on their zero tolerance policy for racism, sexism etc.

Again, believing this doesn't mean that I think he should be hung out to dry, but seeing as he's a public figure, representing his nation, I'm not sure how this could be done in strict confidence, and they have an established process to follow. Whether or not they have safeguarding internally to give him support whilst they examine the issue, I have no idea - obviously they should do, but all I can do is comment on what I think is right, which is bringing this stuff to light and giving it air, and individuals being held accountable for things they've said and done.

[Livilla]

Zero tolerance doesn’t (shouldn’t) mean disproportionate action against any individual, though.

I think it could all just end up supporting a charter of a employers/bodies hanging individuals out to dry to protect their own interests on the basis that there’s a baying public that will come after them if they are seen not to be taking strong action, and the individual will just have to manage as best they can, despite the fact everyone knows about consequences for the individual. Which is all fine when you agree with the baying public, obviously. What if you don’t? (On the basis that none of the things we’ve been discussing are crimes, as currently drafted). And given the dizzying speed with which public opinion can change on some issues, as an individual I’d probably hope for a bit more protection than that…

(Speaking of tweeting, someone daubed a 12 year old, and utterly uncontroversial, tweet of Phillip Schofield’s about his dinner plans onto the grounds of a random football club last night, and the club are annoyed about the graffiti. I have no idea if it’s meant to be a comment on current events, but the inanity of it did amuse me )

[Derek Nimmo]

As I understand their actions, I don't think what they're doing is disproportionate though.

And as I said, I have no idea how to control the media and the public! Last time I looked, I wasn't Rupert Murdoch But just because I have no plan for this, doesn't mean that I think people shouldn't be held accountable.

How very random re Philip Schofield - where was he off to for dinner?

[Morganna]

I think it is a quagmire of trickiness. I don't think I have seen all the tweets - I saw a couple of rather childish comments about women and one about a muslin friend being 'the bomb', which is clearly not great, either as a 'joke' or in any other sense, but I believe there were others that were censored on the grounds of unacceptability.

I'm uncomfortable about this - I felt the same when people were talking about Labour Party antisemitism, and those in the know were insisting that it was rife and offensive, whilst those accused were saying it was being taken out of context, and everyone else was supposed to decide who to believe whilst not being trusted with the detail in case we were affected by it in some way. Admittedly, I haven't gone digging, but I (probably along with most people) don't know whether what Robinson said was so beyond the pale that he deserves this public shaming, or whether it's a storm on a teacup, and in these times of culture wars that is worrying, as each 'side' is more than capable of manipulating facts to make a case.

Ten years ago, Twitter was a different place from now, and I'm not sure that 18 year olds think things through in the same way as adults. I can well see how someone could think that they were just talking to their followers (in his case probably schoolfriends and 'the lads' from the pub or cricket club, and not thinking for a moment that one day they would be famous and people would be dragging up their comments for us to be discussing on here, or the massively hypocritical Johnson to have the brass neck to criticise. Lils mentioned Handbag, and it's a good example. I'm sure we have all posted things (on there, on here, on other sites) which we no longer think, and wouldn't want to be held against us. Time moves on, and we do change. I think we need to be allowed to change, and not to have to live with past indiscretions or stupid comments hanging over us. That is not to say that sexist/racist/homophobic tweets or comments should be ignored, but more that they should have been picked up at the time, not stored away to be dragged out now. I suppose it's a bit like finding that someone stole sweets from Woolworths when they were young and suspending them now on the grounds that they are a thief.

[cluefree]

I think he needs to show that he’s committed to learning and changing/has changed and his apology needs to be straightforward with no veiled references to his “state of mind” or challenges at the time.

How many people of colour would make those tweets or equivalent fuck ups and get another chance at their chosen career or field with an apology? The bar seems quite low for successful white men in general.

[Morganna]

I agree that what he said was wrong - even the bits I saw. I just don't know how he can show that he's changed (although if there were evidence of more recent racist comments, that would suggest that he hasn't). I'm not excusing him in any way, but I am wary of public shamings, both for the mental health issues they can bring about, and for the disproportionate reaction that they can engender when they become politically charged.

[cluefree]

Perhaps showing a commitment to change by volunteering with groups or undertaking charity work. Even an apology that shows that he’s been listening and learning and how he’s done that or will do it going forward.

There shouldn’t be a public shaming, but equally it’s not enough to say “silly boy, he was young” and assuming he’s changed with no evidence to suggest he has.

Racist tweets are a world away from youthful ignorance, in my opinion. And if he was raised in a racist home, then all the more reason to show how he’s since learned not to be a gross, racist ignorant tosser.

[Lily]

He hasn't said anything similar in ten years; that's pretty good evidence he's changed, unless he has kept his bigotry under a hat. I have read his statement and apology, and it sounded heartfelt, although of course anyone can sound anything.

[cluefree]

Ellie Kemper has just issued an apology (over something far more innocuous than this) and it’s a really good example of a decent apology.

He hasn’t said anything PUBLICLY for ten years. Hence the need to show some sort of tangible effort, I suppose.

[ParisGal]

Oh I was just thinking of the Kemper thing, I read about it on Snopes and it seemed to have been inflated beyond its true (yet still concerning) facts.

[cluefree]

I think so, PG. I think the dragging of her over it was completely disproportionate.

[Lily]

Maybe he grew up and forgot about it. I'm very loathe to make a big deal out of something someone said as a yooth when I've said awful things myself (not that word, though, I must admit). I'm also uncomfortable about people making public penance as it seems so forced and fake, it's like they're doing it to be seen to do it rather than actually doing it to learn something.

I've never heard of Ellie Kemper but a quick Google begs the question: who is going through the pasta of these people? What are they getting from it?

[Kenickie]

Just who IS going through their pasta?

[Lily]

Someone needing extra carbs.

[Tsu]

He hasn't said anything similar in ten years; that's pretty good evidence he's changed, unless he has kept his bigotry under a hat. I have read his statement and apology, and it sounded heartfelt, although of course anyone can sound anything.

Did you ever see that Tom Cruise film set in the near future where people were arrested and sentenced based on their intent to commit crime? That's what's happening here just about.
Can't remember what it was called.

ETA - Minority Report

[Loralei]

Did you ever see that Tom Cruise film set in the near future where people were arrested and sentenced based on their intent to commit crime? That's what's happening here just about.
Can't remember what it was called.

ETA - Minority Report

No it isn't At worst, he's being disproportionately punished for something he did a long time ago. He's definitely not being punished for something he might do in the future but hasn't yet.

[Luce]

Tsu! I’m quite certain that is not what’s going on here! My mum hinted at something very similar yesterday. It is a bit of a nonsense.

I hate consequences, we all hate consequences. I don’t think destroying someone’s career is appropriate if they’ve appropriately apologised, made amends, are sincere. Like James Gunn from Guardians.

I’ve also said stupid, misogynistic stuff as a kid and I feel the same sensitivity as Lora as my F is doing a brilliant impression of an Incel at the moment. But still. I think it’s critical that we all have room to make mistakes as long as they’re mistakes, not patterns of behaviour.

[Loralei]

Yes, I think that's important, but I can't believe he never went back and deleted those tweets. Does he still use the same Twitter account, do we know?

[Luce]

I mean, I’d not heard of the lad till the other day so no idea

[smalex]

I've no idea but in trying to find out it revealed there's another professional cricketer with the same name who's had to put a statement on his Instagram to point out he's a different Ollie Robinson. Rough week for him I'd imagine!