Would you judge...?

[Lily]

It could be very painful for them to talk about! I wouldn't expect someone to share that with me when I didn't know them very well.

I do wonder if my biological father ever tells anyone he has a daughter floating around somewhere. I hope he doesn't.

[sally maclennane]

Tbh, i was only musing that sometimes the "crazy ex-wife" is somewhat true, although I mostly believe it to be an excuse for misogynistic, inadequate and incompetent men.

Yeah, I reckon that in 99% of such cases, the father is a waste of space, with a very small number being due to the mother. If I was denied access to my child, I'd move heaven and earth to resolve it, and I'd make sure that it was all on record somewhere. Oddly enough, many men whose wives apparently turned their children against them don't seem to have any evidence of their efforts.

My dad made little effort to keep up a relationship with my brothers, and to be honest, if I'd not made the effort, he and I would have drifted apart too.

[FiveO'Clock]

It could be very painful for them to talk about! I wouldn't expect someone to share that with me when I didn't know them very well.

I wouldn't expect it either. I meant, if a person felt close enough to me to divulge that fact, I would assume they would tell me how it came about.

[Loralei]

I do think my ex-Sil is callous and selfish, as well as having an actual mental health disorder, but...obviously I didn't know her as well as my brother did and he's a lot nicer about her than i am/we are, so ...huh. You've given me a lot to think about, Lora, thank you.

I wasn't trying to pull you up. I completely agree you can have a mental health disorder and still be an arsehole, but I guess it's not a level playing field. I'm glad I didn't offend, anyway.

If I was denied access to my child, I'd move heaven and earth to resolve it, and I'd make sure that it was all on record somewhere. Oddly enough, many men whose wives apparently turned their children against them don't seem to have any evidence of their efforts.

I agree with this. My mum always defended my stepdad but even she said that, had she tried the same stunts, my dad would have camped on our doorstep for as long as it took. (Iroic, then, that he completely lost interest in us by the time we grew up!) R always refused to tell his kids his side of the story as he said it wasn't fair when his ex wasn't able to defend herself, but my mum snapped at some remark after he died and told my SIL (stepbrother's wife) the whole (of his side of the) story. I think it's really sad that my step siblings never got the chance to talk to him about it but, again, wrong decision for the right reasons.

I'm sorry, Zoomer; this is barely relevant to the OP but I seem to have a lot to say on the matter!

[Ruby]

The crazy-ex-wife-using-kids-as-a-weapon trope might be real - but for every real example, there are ten men who are using it as cover.

[Smunder Woman]

.

[Edith Bacon]

There are a lot of men who mistake not putting up with their shit any more for ‘crazy’.

[Ella77]

There are a lot of men who mistake not putting up with their shit any more for ‘crazy’.

Exactly.

[Smunder Woman]

Yep.

[Princess Morripov]

Yeah I definitely agree.

A’s ex would quite regularly deny him contact with M when she was younger if he didn’t agree with the terms she was setting out (he preferred a routine/set days of M being with us, whereas she wanted that but then to also add in extra days at very short notice so she could go out more when she only had to look after her 2 x Saturdays a month and we did the rest anyway)

Anyway, this did result in one stint of refusing access for 6 months (her constant MO was to request extra, A would refuse because we’d already made plans and then her to decide he couldn’t see her at all which made no sense and just seemed to be cutting her nose off to spite her face) and having to spend a fortune to go to court to agree the routine which went exactly back to how it was

This happened for years until M was old enough to have her own mobile phone and talk directly to A alongside insisting to her Mum that she wanted to see her Dad.

She’s 17 now and unfortunately we don’t have very much contact with her at all. It’s all quite complicated but I think very much a result of her mother constantly trying to snipe and create a problem between us all and finally succeeding, mixed in with difficult teenage years. We were made to feel the bad guys for trying to get her to focus at school whereas her mum was thrilled to have a drinking buddy at 15 to go clubbing with

I really feel for A as he’s really upset by it all and constantly tries to reconcile with her but it always results in her just wanting to use A as a cash machine as I think at the moment she’s not interested in a relationship beyond that which is really sad as she’s got a big family that care about her and miss her.

So I would absolutely judge if it was young children and they weren’t pursuing official routes to get contact resumed. Giving up just seems lazy and pretty much saying you don’t really care about your children enough to fight to see them? Proper out of sight, out of mind.

If it’s older children it’s slightly more difficult as they are their own people really and will naturally be heavily influenced by the parent they are living with, who may or may not be crazy

[Jupiter]

My ex colleague was Canadian living in Ireland with his Irish wife. I knew he had adult kids back in Canada and that he didn't speak to his youngest son. He passed away two years ago and his other two children flew over for his funeral but not the youngest son. I only realised when I did the maths that his youngest son was only nine when my ex colleague divorced his mother and moved to Ireland with his new wife. Obviously I don't know the full story but I found it hard to imagine emigrating with a young child left behind.

Myself and E discussed emigrating briefly when we first got together but E would never do it as his son was only a toddler at the time and he had him every weekend.

[Smunder Woman]

.

[Princess Morripov]

Absolutely - A had a number of opportunities to move abroad whilst M was young but it didn’t feel right at all. And now he could, we don’t feel it’s appropriate because of my parents :facepalm:

[Loralei]

There are a lot of men who mistake not putting up with their shit any more for ‘crazy’.

That's absolutely true.

I think I'm probably also an example of having one side of the story drip fed as a child. I've always felt a bit sorry for my step siblings for being brainwashed, but the likelihood is it we were all subjected to that.

I was thinking last night that the reason there are several stories of men being kept from their children on here, and no one is telling stories of feckless, irresponsible men is because the latter is so common and familiar that we don't need to (re)tell those

[Smunder Woman]

I'm bored of telling that one

[Kenickie]

I remember when I used to watch that programme about buying a house in Australia lots of the men used to have children from a first family that they seemed happy to leave behind. I absolutely can't imagine doing it for any reason, but especially not going so far just because you fancy a bit of sunshine.

My ex SIL did make it quite hard for BIL to see their kids at first, but then he moved quite a distance away (just because he wanted to) through his own choice so I've lost a lot of sympathy. I can't see why you wouldn't be as close as possible to try and see as much of your kids as you could - even if she was being a bit flaky about timings if he lived closer he could be a lot more spontaneous and take advantage of any opportunity offered.

[Tabitha]

I would try to hold off on the judging until I knew more, but I'd definitely lean towards the judgy.

I imagine most people who don't see their children feel they have very good reasons, I've never heard of anyone saying "I moved on, it was easier that way". I know a few people who grew up with an absent parent and a few people who are absent parents, and none of those cases seem to be like the one Smun describes.

One of my brother's pals was left with two sons under the age of 12 when he and his wife split, she just upped and moved a couple of hours away to be with her affair partner and then became super flaky about planning. Now obviously I don't know that he wasn't a complete turd to her, although I've known him 20 years and it would surprise me, but I really would like to know how she justifies it to her new friends and colleagues because I'm sure she doesn't just say that she left the kids when she left the husband, which is how it seems to me.

[Smunder Woman]

This is only slightly relevant, but when has that stopped any of us When we first decided that the boys would stay with J for longer, my main emotion was pure rage that he had found it so easy to deliberately choose to be this far away permanently. It's horrific when it's just for a few weeks.

[smalex]

I think its sometimes such a big old mess, the dads flake out, the mums make it difficult, everything is built on how they each feel wronged by the other. My friend's ex is a twat, without debate, but she's also a dab hand at outright slagging him off and withholds the few bits of communication he and his family send (often appealing for a reconcilliation), so in her mind her dad and his entire family haven't bothered with her for nearly 3 years...which isn't quite true. My friend thinks its for the best because he's a twat, which I can see. I dunno. Mess. Neither of them is covering themselves in glory from an outsiders POV. But I'd probably feel differently if I was my friend.

But generally speaking I'd approach anyone who declared they didn't see their children (particularly if they're younger than 20ish) with a good amount of Judge, yes

[sally maclennane]

My step brother has 2 sons who are in their early 20s, he split with their mum when they were at primary school but had them half the week, and lived near their mum. He was with an Australian woman for some time after that, and was quite open about the fact that he was planning to move there with her, once his youngest son was 16 (the other one would have been 18). In the event, they split before that time but he seemed to think this was absolutely fine to just up and move to the other side of the world. He's now married to a different woman,and they have 2 toddlers. She moved into his house which the boys stayed in at least half the week and where they had their own rooms and bathroom. Within a year, they'd moved to near her parents, to a smaller house (more expensive area) so now if the boys want to go there, they have to share a room. Plus its much further out of the city and hard to reach by public transport. It doesnt seem much and I think his wife gets on well with the boys but it just feels like they've been pushed out to suit his new family.