Friend in difficulties

[Lily]

My friend (10 years younger than me) has recently had an acrimonious split with a longterm boyfriend who did her self confidence no good whatsoever. We were relieved by this but she's now having an affair with her boss, who is my age and married with small children. He has a history of cheating (I worked with him in my last place) but E has convinced herself that she is different and feelings are involved. She has gone from feeling bad about herself to thinking that he'll leave his wife and getting excited about it. (I mean - he might do, this does happen - but is that something she wants to involve herself in, etc., etc...)

Awful as it sounds I am really worried for her career: she is a high-flyer, but she admitted herself if the affair comes out she will be ostracised because it's never the bloke, always the woman, who gets the blame, and this is a big worry of hers. She says she feels bad about the wife & children but can't stop.

Another close friend has had to step away, as she's been the child in this scenario and finds it deeply upsetting. I get her feelings entirely but I also understand E is behaving not like her normal self because it must be so intoxicating to have a man interested in you after being with one who for years put you down and made you feel rubbish. She can't see that this guy is predatory and started making moves on her the minute he found out she wasn't happy with her boyfriend. E is obviously deeply hurt by other friend, and I don't want to do the same thing - but I am struggling a bit with this now.

I thought I would just be an understanding ear but not say too much and try to help her rebuild herself in other ways but this has ramped up. They go the same gym and she has put a couple of cryptic photos on her Instagram with him in the background which is pretty sickening to be honest. I want to talk to her about stuff but I find it really hard to without sounding like a naysayer. But I am a naysayer which is why I am trying to just listen and let her blether. I don't know what to do. So, erm, any advice gratefully received.

[Tabitha]

God, I’d be out of that situation in a heartbeat if I was you. If she wants to pursue such vile behaviour she wouldn’t be doing it with my shoulder to cry on. Not only that but you know him too and doubtless have mutual contacts who will know his wife. The potential for disaster seems high.

[Hazey_Jane]

Stay out Lils.

[Lily]

To be honest Tabs I'm hoping disaster will occur and that his wife finds out. I also know that will cause big trouble for E. I can't say she won't deserve it, but she's my friend and I don't want her to be hurt.

I'm not "in" Hazey, but I'm trying to figure out how to be a good friend while steering well clear of this. It is affecting how I see her as a person, which is unfair of me as we all do shitty things. I think I might take your line Beatrix and refuse to engage in conversation about it.

[Topcat]

Absolutely stay away from it and tell her that you don't want to know anything about it.

[Luce]

Neither your circus, nor your monkeys! When it comes to knowing what to do, I’d do nothing. Lend an ear if you really
feel you must but I’d keep it very surface level. It isn’t your problem.

[Pippedydeadeye]

My colleague said something brilliant the other day. If I’m not part of the problem, and I’m not part of the solution, then I don’t need to be part of the conversation.

You don’t need to be any part of this. Support her later if needed.

[Margo]

Absolutely what Pip said!

Good grief, what a mess! And whilst I’m eternally nosy and would absolutely love to know all the details, in your shoes I’d steer well clear…!

[Lily]

Absolutely perfect. Thank you for that Pip and that is what I can say to her.

I'm nosey as buggery but I really don't want to know the details of this. It's all so sordid and horrid. I can not talk about/listen to it and still be a good friend, right?

[Dutchie]

I love your colleague's words Pip! I had a similar situation at my work years ago, except the girl involved was just a colleague. I knew the manager's wife and kids though and I felt so sad for them, knowing it's all going to come out at some point. I know everyone can fall in love with the wrong person but in most cases it doesn't have a happy ending and her involving you kind of makes you an unwilling accessory, which is a horrible position to be in. So yes, use Pip's colleague's brilliant statement!

[Lily]

Fortunately it ended last night by mutual consent. She was in bits so I went around to give her a cuddle. I also took her mind off it by having food poisoning and voiding my entire carcass over her bathroom followed by mine, with my car stuck in the middle of it as I cannot bear being ill in someone else's house particularly when I'm doing my best Exorcist impression.

She reassured me the Instagram thing wasn't him. I did think it had been a bit off so I'm glad I was wrong about that. I still hope his wife finds out - he took her on a date a few days ago FFS, the audacity of him - but at least if she does her ire will be focused on him, or his next dalliance.

[Lily]

To update on this They got back together - she couldn't handle it. Believe it or not, after him giving his wife an 'ultimatum' that she sorted her shit out (he didn't tell my friend this), the utter ****. Apparently wife has had a hysterectomy hoping this would help. Friend decided to go on a date with someone else, dickhead found out and came around weeping and wailing about how close he is to leaving his wife even though she has had this op. She told me all this last night and I felt physically sick. Which I know it an overreaction and one I have to dampen down. I am trying very hard not to say anything beyond that his behaviour is awful and could she ever trust him if he did leave (and be with her). She just seems totally convinced that he's not a bad person, he's just done some bad things, they argue in front of the children and wife says inappropriate stuff in front of them, she kicked a dog (?), etc... I pointed out that this was just his word and he's not exactly reliable but she seems convinced he's being honest. But she wants him to be. Apparently they've had all the conversations about how a relationship would go if they were together and she says that she doesn't think he will leave but I don't believe that she does think that.

How do you handle it when your friend, who you love and know is a good person, does something which makes you feel so uncomfortable regardless of whether it's complicated/right/wrong/ etc.? Like I said I am trying very hard not to say anything and she does say she feels an awful person and terrible about herself and she's not but - FFS.

Maybe I am just naive and don't know how someone can feel so strongly about a bloke that they want him despite knowing what he's capable of? I don't know if I have been in love with someone before. I've been v upset about men but I don't think that was love so much as my self-esteem getting a hammering.

Sorry for the

I just loathe this bloke and if they do get together I'll have to invite him to parties and things.

I've tried ringing a couple of friends about this to work out why I feel thus but I can't get the words out. So you're getting it. This isn't about her but about my visceral reaction and how to be a bit more grown up about it. I have said to her that I don't think I'm the best person to talk to about it as I'm prejudiced but I can't tell my friend NOT to tell me about something very important to her. I'd be really hurt if a friend said that to me and it would put a barrier between us which may not be repairable.

[Morganna]

I think you have to accept that this is how she feels, whether you understand it or not - there is a good chance that she won't understand it herself. I'm not sure about you ringing others to talk about it though - if you are going to listen to your friend you really do have to respect her confidence.

What you don't have to do is agree that she's doing the right thing, and you absolutely can tell her that in your opinion this is a bad idea. I agree that asking her not to talk about it will drive a wedge between you, and that this is a case of 'when the chips are down' for your friendship. It's at times like this when you find out who your friends are. I think you need to be there for her, and not judge her, but it's fine to point out that she's setting herself up for a fall - that's also what friends are for.

[Lily]

Thanks Morgs. I meant talking to people who don't know her, not mutuals, about how I feel - as opposed to posting on here (I have hesitated doing so).

It's more managing my own reactions to this as I don't want to feel sick when I see my friend FFS. It's ridiculous and an overreaction.

[Morganna]

You'd be surprised at how easy it is for someone to know someone who knows his wife, or whatever. Degrees of separation are scary at times.

Anyway, are your reactions about fear that your friend will get hurt, or that you know that what she is doing is 'wrong'? It might help to try to unpick that, so you know how to react to your reactions IYSWIM. In either case though, it comes down to an ability to separate the person from the behaviour. If (or, more likely, when) she gets hurt, you can help her to get through it. Knowing (or feeling) that someone is doing something wrong is difficult, but at some level we all do things that others would see as such, and we would do them anyway - people can't live their lives conforming to the standards of others, however much they love them. We all learn by our mistakes, and many of the most interesting people have led less than exemplary lives, but had the edges knocked off by being able to understand that life isn't always easy. Those with rigid 'codes of conduct' can be one-dimensional and unbending.

That's not a rogues' charter . As I say, I do think you can point out that your friend is on a collision course one way or another, and of course we can (and should) disapprove of things that clash with our values, but IMO a true friend will be there for you even as they are helping you clean up whilst muttering 'what did I tell you?' as they do so.

[Lola]

I think all you can do here is tell her not to talk to you about it. It’s not fair of her to burden you if it affects you so much. Just tell her (nicely) that you don’t want to get involved and to please talk about other stuff when you’re with her.

[Lily]

Thanks Morgs, this has helped. (I haven't mentioned any names, and it's nobody local - I'm not indiscreet!)

I was v frightened that she would get hurt again. She was in such a state when it ended last time, it was horrible. But she is a lot stronger than me and said that if it all went tits again she would be really upset but she would get over it. Which was reassuring. So we discussed other things she was doing to keep herself busy and active and spoke about a lot of positive stuff. I also find this man's deceit and selfishness sickening, so yes it's the 'wrongness' topo, but I don't bang on about it. I just keep very quiet when she says how great he is.

Lola, I want to, but I'd be terribly hurt if someone said that to me although I would understand it; and it would probably damage a friendship which is worth a lot more than this stupid bastard. She does always apologise if she's stressed me out about it and she is honestly such, such a kind, good person. I would be terribly sad if I lost her friendship over this so I'm just trying to temper my reaction to it. I feel a bit better knowing that whatever happens she will be OK; it's just him I want to burn alive.

[Sky]

A hysterectomy to help what exactly? He should be supporting his wife through the aftermath of major surgery, not plotting to leave her for his fancy piece. He sounds like an absolute cunt and I hope both women come to their senses and give him the boot.

[Sky]

Plus it's always the wife who's the crazy one going about kicking dogs and shouting in front of the weans, but the man is always the innocent one in these situations. She doesn't understand me, she's nuts, etc, etc. blah fucking blah. Tale as old as time.

Sorry. I appear to have a lot of rage today

[FiveO'Clock]

If he's unhappy, he needs to get out of his marriage before starting another relationship, or he's a dick. And anyone who enables him to be a dick, is a bit of a dick themselves.