Questions for childcare providers

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purple_dress
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Re: Questions for childcare providers

Post by purple_dress »

It's normal around here and in London to pay a deposit to go on a waiting list. Very annoying though. I think you get it back if they can't give you a space but not if they offer you one and you don't take it! They definitely should have been clear about all that though.
smalex
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Re: Questions for childcare providers

Post by smalex »

Loads of childminders do school wrap around I think. You'd probably cut your options down a lot if you excluded people who don't.
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Kenickie
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Re: Questions for childcare providers

Post by Kenickie »

There's two really nearby nurseries that I mentioned (I think not very clearly!), the one I know someone whose kids go there, and the other zoo one. I've also seen a couple that are further away, which seemed great apart from distance, and we've got a tour of another further away one booked too. I think as the two nearby ones both sound very good (the non zoo one also does lots of outdoor stuff and pre-Covid did lots of visits to a local care home which is quite cute), we'll probably go for the convenience of one of them unless one of the others seems much better.

That's interesting to know it's common, PD. I think it's ok as long as I get my money back if they don't have spaces, but it's totally not what they said at first ('yes we do have space for them both, you just need to register and pay the deposit').

Yep, I think a lot of CM do wraparound, so it's one of the reasons we've decided it's not for us. The one I visited with the dogs didn't but then I didn't like their set up either as it seemed almost like a small nursery but without the nice setting! I may be being a bit precious but I feel like if they're not going to be with their parents then they should be having a day just full of fun stuff rather than sitting in a car (for some reason, walking pick ups seem ok but this would be sitting in a car going different places). It wasn't the only thing though - I was more put off by her 'well I do have other kids to look after too you know' attitude - I totally appreciate that's the case but I think she could have come across as more interested in their needs (which the dog one did). If they'd gone to her, they would be 2/3 of her spaces apart from the school age kids, so it doesn't seem unreasonable to think she'd be quite focused on them! She was also really disparaging about nurseries in general and I felt like she was doing a bit of a hard sell about how much better CM are for kids which was quite off-putting.
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smalex
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Re: Questions for childcare providers

Post by smalex »

Sorry I didn't mean to intimate you ought to reconsider, just that I think its par for the course really. I very much viewed a childminder as a replacement for home experience, which often included boring trips to the bank/supermarket or whatever so it didn't bother me for the one day a week he went #ambitious :lol:

My impression of most childcare settings is that they bend the kids to their schedule more than make the schedule suit the kids, though obviously you'd imagine they might at least try and look interested.
lorri_b
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Re: Questions for childcare providers

Post by lorri_b »

Ah that makes sense now. A nursery in a zoo sounds really cool. Are they able to see the animals for little trips?

I know there are plenty of great childminders, I just worry that if they aren't being cared for properly that with no other adults there, I would never know about it. You know what setting would suit your children too.
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Froozy
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Re: Questions for childcare providers

Post by Froozy »

I think some places are obviously not for you (one) when you go to look round, even if they sound excellent on paper. The school run thing really put me off one childminders because it seemed to take up so much of their day (especially the afternoon pick up) and like you I didn't feel it was what I was paying my hard earned cash for.

I agree deposits are quite common, especially in popular nurseries, but I'd expect them to be more transparent/accurate in their explanation. It might have been a minor lapse but I'd want to be sure not all their comms were a bit haphazard.

Have you looked at a nanny at all, or is that impossible if either of you will be wfh longer term? A friend of mine found it more cost effective with her twins, although she did have an older one that needed school wrap around care which would have added to her bill if she'd used a nursery/CM.
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Morganna
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Re: Questions for childcare providers

Post by Morganna »

We had a nanny for a year or so after I was badly let down by a CM. It was a good solution in many ways, particularly as J was at school and S wasn't. She came to the house in time to get them ready, I left for work and she took J to school and then either brought S home or took her to playschool or whatever, then picked them up or took them to playdates and so on. It was good to have someone in the house (or at least 'on duty') in case of school emergency or sickness, and she had four kids of her own, so I knew she could deal with day to day traumas. I also paid her to do the cleaning, which was a real boon, as she was more than capable of noticing what needed doing and fitting it in between other things, as she'd run a house of her own.

The downsides were that she had a toddler of her own and brought him with her. This seemed like a good plan, but he was in all day with her, and I would routinely come home to find no yoghurt in the fridge, no biscuits left etc, and once I even came home early and her husband and his brother were eating chips and something or other from my freezer :mad:. It was impossible to manage stock control of children's food, as she was feeding my two for breakfast and tea, and her own for breakfast and lunch, as well as herself, and at least once her husband, too. The things my two liked were always gone by Wednesday, and I couldn't do a big shop until the Saturday - it was maddening, but the alternative would have been for her to feed her little boy separately, which would have been divisive. The toddler (accidentally) broke a couple of toys, and she would put him in my children's clothes if he got wet or dirty - basically, she treated my house as her own. I found out from a friend that she was having her mates over for coffee, which really annoyed me. I confronted her over that, and said I wasn't insured to have people in the house on that basis, and it stopped - she knew she was taking the piss with that one. I felt a bit over a barrel, as it is so hard to find reliable childcare, and I had taken a new full-time job on the assumption that I was covered, and I couldn't take a break to find anyone else. M had also started a new job, so wasn't available as a fallback, and couldn't ask for flexibility either.

To be fair, that makes it sound much worse than it was. All those things happened, but boil down to the incompatibility of working in someone else's house with her own child, and not having proper boundaries between work and home.

So. If you do go down that route (and it does have advantages) my advice would be not to get someone with their own child in tow :)).

Nursery was a breeze by comparison, really - less flexibility, but also less hassle. I do think it's a nerve to charge for a deposit without a guarantee, though. I thought deposits were to protect them against people taking places and not using them after they had turned others away?
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Kenickie
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Re: Questions for childcare providers

Post by Kenickie »

I think I'd be much less bothered overall if it was only for one day, but as they are very likely to be spending more days in childcare than with us I want their time to be as enjoyable as possible. I think it'd probably be good for them in some ways to be running errands, but I'd prefer them to be in a more child-focused environment if possible. I totally accept them being on the nursery or whatever schedule, with this CM it was more than she didn't want them to be in any kind of schedule, just fit in with whatever she fancied doing that day which grated a bit and just overall I got the impression that it wouldn't be that personalised to them which seemed to be the advantage of a CM over a nursery. And the dog CM was totally different, so I think it was a personality thing with her (she's been doing it for 30 years which is great experience wise but I think it means she's got very 'my way or the high way' with things).

The zoo nursery does a trip into the zoo or forest at least once a week which sounds really fun for them, and I think they get to go behind the scenes a little bit.

That's interesting about your nanny experience, Morgs. I guess it must make everything much more awkward when it's your home, and that's a huge cheek to be inviting her husband and brother round!

I did think about a nanny. It would be really nice in a way. Nursery/ CM for two is about £12.50 an hour, and a nanny would be about £12-14 ph gross, but then you have to pay out pension on top of that, and account for holidays, sickness etc and maybe maternity leave, and pay extra if you went through an agency. It just sounds like a bit of an extra headache to turn into an employer (doing payroll etc), and also I'm not sure about wfh with them and the nanny in the house - my house isn't big and especially as they get older they might just find it a bit confusing. I think it probably comes down to the reasons I've decided against a CM - with a nanny in my house as they're maybe not getting anything extra that I wouldn't give them/ not having any different experiences etc whereas with a nursery they'd be having a different base, mixing with other children, and doing lots of stuff that I wouldn't do with them/ have different kinds of toys/ resources etc. I might be wrong about that though as I think a childcare professional is probably a lot better at thinking up activities/ has more patience for craft and messy play etc!

I did think the deposit was to secure a place so it does seem odd to pay to find out if a place is available!
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smalex
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Re: Questions for childcare providers

Post by smalex »

Ah I see. I always raise a bit of an eyebrow when a CM has their child or grandchild there because it seems a bit...I dunno. Probably changes the dynamic considerably. Loads do though, so I know that's reduces the choice!

My nephews did/do amazing stuff at nursery, I think a good nursery or preschool probably trumps everything else really certainly I terms of range of activities and breadth of experience.
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Kenickie
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Re: Questions for childcare providers

Post by Kenickie »

I guess it's never going to be an abstract proposition - the grandson and the dog CMs are the only nearby ones with availability, so it would be one of them vs the zoo or other nursery, and with that choice I'm definitely keen to choose a nursery. If I had found an amazing CM then that might have trumped nursery but I think it would have had to be a very lucky coincidence with needing the two places at once! I think equally, if I knew an amazing nanny then I'd give it a bit more serious consideration but it seems a lot of hassle, not least the finding and interviewing people.

Also I think I'm a bit rubbish with dealing with people, so if there's issues it seems simpler to be able to speak to a manager etc rather than having to discuss things directly with a person.
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Luce
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Re: Questions for childcare providers

Post by Luce »

Honestly, that was my main reason for never really considering a childminder I think - when you're dealing with different members of staff vs just one person, it feels more professional and less personal. In a good way, I mean. Nurseries never close (I mean, it took a lot to close a nursery before Covid at least) whereas a childminder is only one person so significantly less reliable, no matter how well intentioned. Also, I'm sure there are brilliant childminders out there but I think they are rarer than bad nurseries, if that makes sense. My experience with childminders has always been a bit of a weird, sad experience compared to only positive experiences with nurseries so that might be colouring my experience.
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Morganna
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Re: Questions for childcare providers

Post by Morganna »

I agree with Luce. My experiences with childminders wasn’t great, partly because I wanted part-time care for a while. I expected it to be difficult to find someone I liked who was willing to take a child who would use up a space but not be there all week, but I wasn’t really prepared for the way I was dropped with very little notice when a full-time proposition came along. It is so stressful when you have a limited time to find a replacement, particularly when life is hectic enough. It was a situation like that which pushed me towards the nanny, but overall the nursery was so much better. I knew that if a member of staff was ill there was cover, and that nobody was going to drop me in it because their own child was ill. Plus, for all there are more children in a nursery, they are doing something all the time they are there, rather than fitting around the routine of the minder.
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Leap
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Re: Questions for childcare providers

Post by Leap »

Oh Morgs, what an experience with your nanny! I’d have found that so difficult, mainly because it sounds like she was living the life I’d rather have had after a bad day at work - getting to spend all day with my child in a fully stocked house while having my friends round :lol:

I had a complete mental block about childminders because I didn’t want Hop to become attached to someone and then prefer them to me :mog: OR the other extreme and be the least favourite/known in a CM’s group as she’d only be there 2 days a week. Obviously I knew/know both are irrational, but it can be such an emotions-driven choice and I wasn’t in a great place to be doing the choosing at the time.

On that note, if they’ll be there 4-5 days a week I totally agree Ken, nursery is probably going to have the most varied experiences within a good routine. I really appreciate knowing Hop is getting to do things like messy play, socialise, try new foods etc in a well managed environment, and then there are also the wee bonus things I forgot would happen, like them bringing home Mother’s Day cards and Christmas crafts :love:
smalex
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Re: Questions for childcare providers

Post by smalex »

I feel a bit defensive of CMs now :lol: and guilty that I've criticised them, because Ws was great and did a range of activities, never sacked us off even though we only ever did one day, did nice crafts etc, and I knew several people who have or had really brilliant experiences with CMs.
You're right though of course Ken, you've got to weigh up the actual options you've got.
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Ismee
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Re: Questions for childcare providers

Post by Ismee »

I feel like I should defend childminders too as I once was one!

They are fully regulated, follow the same EYFS curriculum as nurseries do and there are some absolutely amazing ones out there.

I have also worked in a few nurseries and again there are good and bad.

There are definitely pros and cons and the ones you described wouldn't have been for me either, ken. I do hope you can get it sorted out and find something you are very happy with.
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Kenickie
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Re: Questions for childcare providers

Post by Kenickie »

I'm definitely not dissing childminders as a whole, my mum was a pretty good one and I'd definitely be very happy to send Topsy and Tim to Is if you lived nearer and were still doing it. :)

From your insider experience, Is, do you have any tips for spotting the bad nurseries at the moment? I feel like, without Covid, it would have been a lot easier as the main thing I'm looking for (apart from gimmicky things like being in a zoo :lol:) is that the staff there are warm and kind, so I could have had a look round and seen the interactions and got a feel for the place. Now no-one will let you in when the children are there (which is obviously fair enough) it seems harder to tell by just having a look at the setting and chatting to one person.
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Kenickie
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Re: Questions for childcare providers

Post by Kenickie »

I've looked at the Ofsted report. They're useful to a point but I think my priorities are a little different from the inspectors - I'm less interested in whether all practitioners are fully using the opportunities for natural materials to be used to teach maths skills and a bit more focused on if they seem warm and will cuddle my children if they are getting a bit tetchy. ;)

Asking for parent feedback and showing what the children produce are great ideas. For the main nurseries I'm interested in they've got FB pages or stuff on their website showing lots of their activities which look really fun. Although often they show things like children Topsy and Tim's age happily sitting and stirring a tub of pancake mix, whereas I know with my children it would have been tipped straight over their heads. :lol:
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cluefree
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Re: Questions for childcare providers

Post by cluefree »

We’ve had to choose preschool and primaries for Pete without being able to visit, Ken. It’s not ideal but it’s ok. I just asked the preschool if they’ll hug her when she gets upset. They’ve been absolutely amazing and I’m sure you’ll get a feel for how things are by speaking to the staff.

I’m very lackadaisical compared to a lot of parents, I think, but most nurseries etc seem fairly similar in what they offer. There won’t be anything they’ve not seen/dealt with before. It will just come down to who you like the best, I reckon.
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Kenickie
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Re: Questions for childcare providers

Post by Kenickie »

That's reassuring, Cluef, and that makes total sense, Beatrix.

We went to see a nursery this morning and I loved it. The staff have seemed really helpful and great communication from the outset, and when I asked what the logistics of the tour would be (ie could we both come with Topsy and Tim in a pushchair) they were like 'of course, we can spend most of the time talking outside so they can explore the garden' and just seemed really welcoming. The person who did the tour asked loads about Topsy and Tim, and seemed really keen to try and adapt things for them if needed and to go along with what what we want. Eg they'll be going straight into a room that's for 2+ normally as there's no point putting them in the baby room for 2 months, and in that room they all sit at the table to eat. She asked if this is what they do at home, and when I said they're still in highchairs she said they could bring some in for them if we wanted to stick to that, or try them at the table to see how they get on. Not a big thing in the grand scheme of things but it just seemed she had a great attitude to things.

I also asked about their key people and if they'd have the same one, and she said that they'd discussed it and thought it might be better to have different ones (which would be my preference as I don't want them seen as 'the twins') but they would be happy to go with what we wanted - I thought it was quite sweet that they'd thought about this sort of thing already even before we've signed up.

Their outside space is AMAZING, so I think they would absolutely love it there.

The only slight downside is that this one is the furthest out of the three we've narrowed it down to (this one, zoo one, and nearest one). I guess it's tricky as we can't have a tour of nearest one for a couple of weeks, and not sure when the zoo one is doing tours. So maybe seeing them in person might sway me more towards them. It's only a couple of minutes more, so although that would add up to about 10 mins extra a day if we're wfh and doing drop offs, I don't know if that's enough of a difference to be a consideration? Probably not.
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purple_dress
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Re: Questions for childcare providers

Post by purple_dress »

That sounds great. What is the parking like? Ours had a dedicated car park and that made things so much easier and less stressful. The other two I looked at were both a lot more difficult to park.
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