IWLTS

[Ella]

I WLY ask my husband's family why they always have to have bread with lasagne or macaroni cheese. it's never lovely, oozy garlic bread or served with balsamic vinegar and olive oil, but every time we have lasagne there's a rush to get 'bread and salad'. nobody in this family knows how to make a basic vinaigrette, either. they probably consider it bourgeois.( have I already said that my FIL thinks I'm hopelessly bourgeoise for using a napkin in at every meal? I like to keep my food off my clothes. I also like to know that if I get a blob of something on my cheek- really quite common- I can wipe it off. invergted snobbery is really stupid. am quite bourgeoise anyway. nothing wrong with that.

[Morganna]

IWLTS Stop making it so bloody difficult to apply for a job. There's no reason I should have to set up an account for every bloody company I apply to. Nor should questions like bloody "pronouns" be essential - all the "diversity" questions should be voluntary or you'll get a "prefer not to say" to every single one.

But, then again, pronouns seem to me to have more relevance than courtesy titles. I get equally irritated by being forced to specify, 'Ms or Mrs', when my marital status has absolutely nothing to do with anything. I've occasionally picked 'Prof', 'Dr', or 'Lady' from the list, just for devilment. No. Body. Cares! I prefer to be just plain old Jane Smith, or whatever. (Apologies to any actual Jane Smiths here.)

I’ve pondered this for years. People often don’t understand why I use Mrs Ganna instead of Morgs sometimes. It’s not about being M’s chattel, as anyone who knows me would attest.

It’s just a level of formality that I sometimes feel is necessary. If a doctor is about to tell me I’ll be dead within 3 months, or if I want to complain that a tradie hasn’t done a job properly, it’s just easier all round if we don’t pretend to be ‘mates’.

Morgs is my usual form of address, and sometimes using Mrs Ganna is not assuming any sort of superiority. It’s just a protective thing on both ‘sides’ of the nomenclature. Using Ms Dadsname wouldn’t alter that at all, but would detach me from my family.

[sally maclennane]

I don't feel anything (as in, more respected or protected) when people call me Ms Maclennane, and I much prefer to be called Sally. In your scenario, Morgs, if someone is telling me that I have 3 months to live, I'd much rather they called me Sally. I can't think of any situation where I'd want to be addressed as Ms Maclennane. So I do think it's entirely personal.

Howver, the person should really ask the other how they want to get addressed, because my preference is probably easier to state than yours. So the doctor giving me bad news might say "well, Ms Maclennane, it's bad news..." and I'd be saying "oh please, call me Sally" which is an easier conversation than the "how dare you call me Sally, you whippersnapper. You will address me as Ms Maclennane"* which is harder to say, without coming across like Maggie Smith in Downton Abbey.


*I'm sure you don't say it like this, Morgs :))

[Lily]

I like to be addressed by my title formally; I think it's polite. Most letters come to a Ms, Mr, Lord, etc. don't they?

A "they/them" applicant would be snatched up straightway by some companies and go straight in the bin with others. It isn't normally an essential field but on this case I choose "other" and then wrote in "N/A".

[Lola]

I think the title thing can be a generational thing which is dying out now. My mum likes to be Mrs whatever & sees it as a mark of respect. People in Coronation Street used to do it until fairly recently

[Luce]

The title=polite/respect thing is a generational thing, I think. It does not make any sense to me whatsoever. Any kind of formality always seems so impolite to me.

[Lola]

IWLTS though that people expecting other people to remember their unusual pronouns need to realise that the world doesn’t revolve around them, and people have got their own stuff going on.

I like Suzy Eddie Izzard’s view on this in that she/he/they doesn’t really care but appreciate people for trying.

[Lola]

Going back to the tv discussion, I don’t mind it being on at somebody else’s house otherwise the total silence needs to be filled No to endless sport though!

[sally maclennane]

The title=polite/respect thing is a generational thing, I think. It does not make any sense to me whatsoever. Any kind of formality always seems so impolite to me.

Same here, although I'm probably a different generation to you, you young pup :lol:

I'm also quite a bit wary of things being described as "polite/etiquette/the done thing" because it assumes that everyone knows these, agrees with them, was taught them from birth and that just isn't the case. And that's before you get to cultural differences or neurodivergency.

[Luce]

Oof, yes, good point. Also, being polite gets women killed etc etc

[overthehill]

But, then again, pronouns seem to me to have more relevance than courtesy titles. I get equally irritated by being forced to specify, 'Ms or Mrs', when my marital status has absolutely nothing to do with anything. I've occasionally picked 'Prof', 'Dr', or 'Lady' from the list, just for devilment. No. Body. Cares! I prefer to be just plain old Jane Smith, or whatever. (Apologies to any actual Jane Smiths here.)

I’ve pondered this for years. People often don’t understand why I use Mrs Ganna instead of Morgs sometimes. It’s not about being M’s chattel, as anyone who knows me would attest.

It’s just a level of formality that I sometimes feel is necessary. If a doctor is about to tell me I’ll be dead within 3 months, or if I want to complain that a tradie hasn’t done a job properly, it’s just easier all round if we don’t pretend to be ‘mates’.

It's all context isn't it? What I object to is where you're filling an online form, maybe online shopping or something where one's title means absolutely nothing, but the title is mandatory. You can't buy your bloody pet food or gadget without it.

At the risk of straying into 'hot take' territory, I also find it really annoying when hotels and travel sites ask you if you're travelling for business or leisure. If you're going to a funeral, neither are relevant but, again, the designer of the form insists you tick one or the other.

[Kenickie]

I would rather do away with titles but I do find it annoying when it's:
can I call you Ken
Sure
Great, Ken, so I'm Mr Evans

The background TV doesn't bother me but I will be horrified if my kids decide to be shoes on households when they leave home. ;)

[Morganna]

I would rather do away with titles but I do find it annoying when it's:
can I call you Ken
Sure
Great, Ken, so I'm Mr Evans

I've come across that, too, and it's so rude! I suppose it goes back to what I was trying to say earlier. It's not about respect or politeness (to me) - it's a formality thing, like 'tu' and 'vous' in French. If we had that in English it would do away with any perceived need for titles.

The background TV doesn't bother me but I will be horrified if my kids decide to be shoes on households when they leave home. ;)

It's the other way around for me . J and C are shoes off, but we are not.

[Kenickie]

People must react against their upbringing. :lol:

[emma_p]

They definitely do! I'm convinced things somehow skip a generation. My mum hated cooking and was (by her own admission) terrible at it and I learnt to cook from an early age, no help from her but from cookbooks and tv shows. S was the same. His mum saw cooking and eating as a chore. My kids have absolutely no interest in it which is shocking to me.

But not as shocking as shoes inside! Do you get dressed in the morning and put actual shoes on, just to sit in your house??????!!!!!!!!

[AshleyX]

Are you genuinely shocked by shoes inside, Emma? Is that not more the norm than not in the U.K.?

I’m not a shoes-off household but I don’t tend to wear shoes inside if I’m just sitting around relaxing. I’d happily come in with my shoes on and (eg) unpack shopping etc, and I don’t expect visitors to take their shoes off.

[emma_p]

It has shocked me!

[Luce]

For goodness sake I wear shoes inside as in, when I walk into my house as opposed to waking up and putting on shoes to sit inside.

[Kenickie]

:lol:

Actually it definitely must skip generations as my parents are shoes on. Same as Ashley though, they wouldn't deliberately put shoes on but wouldn't take them straight off. Sometimes I want to tell them to take them off in their own house. ;)

I do turn the lights off in their own house though, and sometimes the heating. Only in rooms that aren't being used/when it's boiling though.

[Kenickie]

My mum is probably on Gransnet slagging me off. ;)