Moving on Up/Out

[Shoe]

Let's hope we both find one soon!

[Mrs Danvers]

I think support staff in most places are not appreciated. To speak to frontline staff in some of the charities I've worked in, you'd think fundraisers were the spawn of satan rather than people making sure the wage bill got paid. It was truly baffling.

I decided to apply for the charity job, against my better judgement it has to be said, and have an interview on Monday. I just thought that if I didn't apply I may be waiting an age for something similar. Interestingly, I spoke to the recruiter yesterday and she said that since she had given my feedback to the CEO on Chippy, she has been completely cut out of the loop No-one else who went for coffee to discuss it, had her sit in and she is also now not copied into any of the emails to and from the CEO, which had been the case up until my feedback. Imogen (recruiter) said that the CEO seemed to take my points on board and is now using the agency more proactively, as the 'go-to' people with fundraising experience. I know it's quite petty but I am pleased and also relieved to see the CEO responding so quickly to address it as an issue.

I am also pleased that I got an interview slot without actually even sending my covering letter. The closing date is Monday and the interviews are the week after. I am in Oxford from next Tuesday until Sunday 25th, so they did some speedy manoeuvring to get me in for next week. I will be meeting the Chair, CEO and I think HR woman. There's a task to do with a brief presentation but it's very straightforward.

[Edith Bacon]

Good luck for the interview, Mrs D. It’s a tricky situation but you might find that it resolves itself since the CEO seems to be so receptive to feedback and is taking action to minimise Chippy’s impact.

Good luck to all you other hunters too. I hope you find somewhere you are valued and rewarded properly.

[Glint]

That's a very interesting development with Chippy, and maybe I'm reading into it wrongly, but she could be on a very shoogly peg.

Good luck.

[Squirrel]

That sounds brilliant, I hope the interview goes well.

shoogly peg.

[Mrs Danvers]

Thanks both. I think as the only person who knows anything about fundraising, the board have been very keen to keep her sweet hence promoting her to Director level. One of the questions I intend to ask is how they see it working with two people in fundraising at Director level in such a small organisation. The other interesting thing is that when I had my coffee, I asked about Corporate Fundraising which would normally fall under the remit of the person looking after 'high value' partnerships (so this new role) and which I did for 6 years. The CEO started to say it would need to be discussed just as Chippy jumped in to say, she would be looking after corporates. It was something else that put me off applying as I would like to get back into doing some Corporate Fundraising as I think there would be loads of opportunity and it's usually really interesting. It's also very common for corporate relationships to feed into major donors and vice versa as CEO's, Exec. Directors etc are usually fairly wealthy and influential and someone who is giving personally may make an introduction to their company. The job spec now says that Corporate Fundraising will be part of this new role. Up yours, Chippy

I had really better wind my neck in as I clearly think this job is mine and Chippy is out the door, when currently neither is currently the case

[Ella77]

Nice one, Mrs D!

[Rebel Pebble]

Good stuff and well done for already having an impact on Chippy. And good luck!

[Shoe]

It sounds really positive! The fact the CEO seems to have listened is a very good sign.

[Tyla]

I had really better wind my neck in as I clearly think this job is mine and Chippy is out the door, when currently neither is currently the case

I would be exactly the same in your position . It is good that the CEO has taken on board your feedback though, it bodes well. Good luck with the interview.

[Mrs Danvers]

Thanks everyone

[smalex]

I always thought you should apply , great news to get an interview. Good luck! I hope theyve got a good answer to your concerns about the structure.

[Shoe]

I heard back from the recruiter; I have my second interview next Wednesday, I'm still not convinced by the role but I am definitely going to go along and try and get some more info, I'm not really in the position to be too fussy! Unfortunately, the other company who I interviewed with last week do not want to see me again. I'm more disappointed than I thought I would be and a bit pissed off too.

The feedback was that they had a lot of very strong candidates and they have decided to take forward the ones with specific previous experience as a PA which is fine but the woman who interviewed me concentrated mostly on her side of things, so HR, marketing, office management etc., which made me think they were the parts of the role to sell myself in. I could easily have talked up the PA side of it if I had known but she led me very much in another direction which meant I didn't bother to push the experience I did have as I assume, wrongly, that the things she was raising would be the important bits.

And the recruiter made sure to stress that she thought I had higher expectations salary wise than I should when I mentioned that the second interview role would be a drop for me. She gave the impression that they wouldn't react well to being asked for more money as they liked to get people in and then promote / up their wages based on merit.

I feel pretty deflated about it all at the moment.

[Kenickie]

I'm sorry, Shoe. :(

The one you didn't get sounds like very bad interviewing. I was annoyed when I eventually got feedback about the job I didn't get last summer as they said I didn't demonstrate enough knowledge of a particular thing, that I do actually know a lot about, but they didn't ask anything around it! It's frustrating when you think you could do better if you were asked the right questions.

Good luck for Wednesday and I hope they're a bit more flexible on the salary than they seem. I'm always a bit suspicious about places who promise raises etc later on.

[Princess Morripov]

I'm sorry Shoe, that is so frustrating.

I had similar in an interview last year where they were looking for examples of a managing people/conflict etc and there was feedback that I'd not demonstrated sufficient experience in managing people, but at that exact time I was working directly with the person who was interviewing me (head of practice) to feedback on progress for performance management for one person who was working for me, and absence management for another, so I briefly mentioned it, but felt it was unnecessary to go into massive details since we were actually regularly talking about it anyway and gave some other slightly different detailed examples that he wouldn't have been aware of to provide extra examples.

I didn't get the role (there were 2 roles and they gave them to two men who definitely had not got that experience ) and his feedback was I didn't demonstrate sufficient people management experience, even though HE FUCKING KNEW, nodded in acknowledgement when I briefly touched on that subject, and then seemed happy with my other examples from previous employments, the massive cunt.

Actually that's not really helpful, sorry but basically it's a massive minefield and people are arseholes.

I really hope that something good comes your way soon. And I don't think you should have to massively reduce your salary expectations. I did take a pay cut to move to this job (4 years ago) but it made sense (as I wouldn't need to do a 100 mile round trip commute daily, so petrol to consider and better company/benefits). I't only took a year to get back onto the previous wage so it was worth taking the chop initially so it is worth weighing up whether a small initial drop could come round to better things eventually.

[Heebie Jeebie]

I often think rubbish reasons are given for not hiring when actually they just preferred another candidate and had to justify it. Not that that's a lot of comfort, but don't kick yourself for not focusing on certain things.

For what it's worth, I have gone with pay cuts more than once, due to desperation rather than as a strategy but have always pushed my salary up significantly within a year or so of doing so, far beyond the previous higher rate. So while it might stick in your throat a bit, don't discount it.

[Duophonic]

Sounds positive MrsD.

I'm in a similar boat to Shoe.

I had a telephone interview with a cyber security company. It would've meant a relocation to England and the feedback after the interview was positive but it was boiling down to being over qualified and that the position to be filled was too junior.

I'm applying for things but nothing is biting.

[Shoe]

Thanks guys.

they said I didn't demonstrate enough knowledge of a particular thing, that I do actually know a lot about, but they didn't ask anything around it! It's frustrating when you think you could do better if you were asked the right questions.

That's it exactly, I was taking my lead from her; I even asked what part of the role was the most important and she never mentioned the PA support, in fact all she said about the Director concerned was that he was very self sufficient and didn't need much support. Why would I then bang on about my PA skills when she was talking about other aspects of the role.

When the recruiter made a point of saying that discussing the salary could be a bad idea it did definitely make me a bit edgy about the company in general, which I was anyway. I'm not totally against taking a small pay cut, it's just I'd rather not do it to take a job I am already unsure about. I also don't know how much of my hesitation is just general shitting it at taking on a new role, I may be psyching myself out because it seems like a step up and I'm wary of taking on too much.

[Mrs Danvers]

I'm sorry about the other company Shoe, how frustrating for you. Sadly, so many interviewers are just crap. The salary thing really is a bit of a minefield and I think it's actually where using a recruiter is quite positive as you can have more of a candid chat with them about money. I totally see what you're saying about not wanting to take a drop- I feel strongly the same way- but from other side I have been extremely hacked off when I have had candidates coming for interview and then asking for more money. When I was recruiting into my team at the NSPCC, the salary was the salary and there was nothing I could do about it. I assumed people were ok with it which is why they applied, otherwise they were just wasting their time and mine. So I would say don't discount the company just on that basis as it's not so unusual for them not to expect to discuss salary with candidates. I would be trying to get an idea from the recruiter how likely it is you would get a pay rise over time, though.

[Shoe]

She says that over time they are good but they give more money based on your performance with them and not before which is fair enough. I think if I was excited about all the other aspects then the money wouldn't be an issue. Hopefully after the second interview I'll feel more positive.