Time For A Change

[Epponnee Rae]

Under what circumstances would they pay for the international move back, Epp? If you got a totally different role within the organization here in the UK, unrelated to the thing you're currently being offered?

Basically yes, lazz. I doubt there would be another role on my current team based in the UK that I could go for, so it would be one on another team. It’s really hard to get UK roles ax the office and footprint are much smaller.

[lazzbo]

OK. Would you be willing to move to another team?

I think they're short-changing you and you give them a LOT of yourself, so I think they're behaving abominably. I absolutely get the longing to come home but I do think you're getting the short end of the stick with what they're currently suggesting.

[Epponnee Rae]

I agree with Cos, and it doesn’t sound like you’re champing at the bit to come back to the UK. You see your family loads anyway, far more than me and I live in the same country as mine :))

Thanks Lola. The thing is I am keen to come home. I am reminding myself how awful it felt being trapped over there during the pandemic, and how devastated I felt when I learned my flat mate was being relocated here last year. All I’ve done since then is make peace with my lot, and try to make the best of my life as it is in the US, but absolutely not expecting it would be forever and that a move back home would happen in some way. I just hadn’t figured it out yet, and have only recently started looking at possible new roles. I didn’t expect it to be a possibility so soon, or that it would be on my own time and dime (as a friend just put it). I think I’d hoped to return in a bit more of a blaze of glory than what feels now like a damp squib. But maybe that’s the best deal I’d get?

I am genuinely stuck. Every time I think I’m not prepared to take it, I start thinking about how I might afford it and make it work

ETA yes I would be willing to love to another team. I have sent a few long shot applications to other roles over the last few months (not recently), but didn’t advance past screening. So it’s not going to be easy.

[nineseven]

It’s hard to see this as a good deal but my Director thinks he’s offering me a brilliant package - that the salary covers the cost of moving (I’m not sure he fully understands what that actually costs),

Is it worth telling him how much it will cost you?

[nineseven]

And nine, they can't stop you working there, having an bad back is not a reason to prevent employment, that would be hugely discriminatory. They probably want to do a workplace assessment and sort out a special chair / standing desk / gubbins.

Thank you - that's reassuring. I have never been so thoroughly interrogated before. It's horrible.

[sally maclennane]

Yeah, nobody over the age of 40 would ever find work if health stuff was a reason not to employ people :))

It's stressful when it's holding everything up though.

[Cosmopolitan]

It won't hold up your start date because it's not a condition of employment. I totally promise you that it's just to make sure that you're supported properly when you start. They have a duty of care to make sure that any issues or problems are properly supported.

[Epponnee Rae]

It’s hard to see this as a good deal but my Director thinks he’s offering me a brilliant package - that the salary covers the cost of moving (I’m not sure he fully understands what that actually costs),

Is it worth telling him how much it will cost you?

I don’t think it would matter, really. They believe the salary increase covers it. But I actually just went back and asked if they would offer just pack and move support (no temp housing) and was pretty much told no again. If that was included then I probably would have bitten the bullet. It’s not the cost (although I may regret saying that), it’s the mental load of the logistics. I’ve spent a lot of the last 36 hours checking out international movers and reviews and there are a lot of bad experiences out there. It makes me feel a bit sick thinking about navigating that without any support at all. It’s a full time job in my mind - how am I supposed to work at the same time? But is that normal? Does anyone relish the thought of packing and moving even with help?

Of course it’s 10 years since I last moved overseas, which was traumatic for many reasons. I have a lot more stuff now too! I don’t really want to sell it all (more faff one way or another).

And then, of course, there is the loss of job security.

I don’t know if anyone else can help now. I just keep going backwards and forwards. If someone came along and said moving internationally is dead easy and cheap I’d feel better about it :lol:

[Pippedydeadeye]

You need Hannie for that.

[Epponnee Rae]

Good point! This is why people shouldn’t be allowed to leave TMT

[H1ppychick]

I think on balance I'd tell them to stick their temp job offer and hold out where you are for a bit whilst looking for something externally or with a different team which will offer the relocation support. Your manager sounds like a bit of a dick, tbh.

[Epponnee Rae]

If I turn it down then I am stuck with my manager for a while longer, and he is a dick.

If I get a different, permanent new role internally, there’s no guarantee it would be U.K. based. It’s still more likely NOT to be, and I’d have to negotiate for it even in that situation which may or may not work out. If I get a new job in another org in the UK/Europe, I would expect that to include relocation. All of that is highly speculative of course.

I also know that the other candidates, both of whom they would offer to if I decline, would do the job from Seattle rather than relocate (they would need visas). And I am guessing that they would not be forced to give up their permanent roles, though I can’t be sure.

[Cosmopolitan]

Having to give up your permanent role seems hugely discriminatory to me. Why different rules?

Your boss absolutely is a dick but if he's doing a bit of illegally discriminatory bullshitting, then I think you should be querying HR. Can you have a meeting with them to go over the role, the benefits etc without him there? Cos if he's trying to get rid of you then he should be offering relocation as a sweetener.

[Cosmopolitan]

Basically the cost of giving up your permanent role should be paid for by a relocation package. That's a reasonable business expense.

[emma_p]

I agree with Cos!

[Hazey_Jane]

Epp- I’m on my second internal relocation in 6 years with my company and it’s incredible the amount of stress and coordination it involves, even when the movers do everything themselves and it’s between countries that share a borderso you don’t worry about having to prove you own all your stuff. Oh and the same plugs etc.

If you’re not being compensated adequately for that- in which ever way you interpret that- tell them to go fuck themselves.

[Hazey_Jane]

I’ve just run your dilemma past Mr. Jayne and he raised citizenship. Do you have US citizenship and is it something you’re interested in? I’m sure you’ve been there long enough to qualify so it might be worth considering if you want to stay to get that organized.

It could well worth be considering for the future. If he’d have moved with me to DE in 2017, he would not now be able to move to NL because of Brexit, which is why he stayed behind to get BE nationality.

[Epponnee Rae]

Thanks for the extra comments everyone. Easy ones first, I don’t have US citizenship, nor do I want it. Now that might be stupid of me given Brexit now, but I never saw the appeal and the last few years in the US haven’t enamoured me to the country any further.

On the relo vs compensation, they are saying that my higher salary offer is the equivalent of being offered a lump sum to cover relocation. They do do this a few different ways, either they use their agents to broker and plan everything and cover that, or they give a lump sum to cover costs. Because this is a temporary role I would qualify for neither according to HR, so they have bumped up the salary to effectively cover the equivalent of the lump sum. I’ve asked a lot of questions about this and believe the offer is genuine. I think if they could have swayed HR to just approve it (relo package) they would have done so (and I also believe that my Director did try for this).

I do think current boss ultimately wants rid of me, but they will NEVER make my post redundant with me in it. He’ll make my life hell and force me to leave before that happens (and he tried that before and I survived, just about). They will also NEVER move my current role to the UK - unless they re-scoped it first. And again that wouldn’t happen with me in it. Even then it is unlikely. But what this offer does do is get me a route home, and a good salary for a bit (enough to save a chunk and maybe get an mortgage :fc: ), and a different more interesting (I hope!) job.

So, I’ve had an agonizing few days but I decided to accept the offer last night. I had a long chat with my mum again and while she is still annoyed at what does seem like shoddy treatment, she’s pleased about me being home. I felt sick when I wrote the email, but woke up this morning feeling happy and a bit excited finally! I’m taking that as a good sign. My soon to be manager was also really chuffed when I got into the office today, and he’s also basically said to plan to come back 2-3 times on business trips before I officially relocate, using my maximum luggage allowance to help with moving stuff and keep shipping costs down. That’s already $$$$s in flights, so I am pleased about that really and feel a bit better about it. Of course there’s loads of logistics still to sort, but I think I can negotiate a timeline that gives me the summer in Seattle (which I want to take a few last trips and obviously manage moving stuff) :fc: again.

I don’t think I’ve ever needed so much guidance on a work decision before, so thanks everyone for talking me through it and your perspectives. Everyone I’ve talked to about it IRL has agreed that it’s a really hard decision and I think whichever way I went it would have been justified. But it’s about time for a change, and I could be coming home under much worse circumstances.

[baargain]

It's a massive decision! Waking up happy and excited is a good sign.

[Wiggle]

What a rollercoaster and I agree with Baa; it's a good sign waking up and feeling happy.