Secondment

[Ella77]

I've been offered a possible secondment as a potential move to the next rung on the ladder. It's not definite yet, and I don't know if I even want it because it could be a real nightmare. My priority is therefore ensuring that if I want to I can come back to my substantive role.

I have a vague feeling that there is some sort of time period after which a secondment becomes your real job, so does anybody know any more about this, and how I can protect myself if the secondment turns out to be awful?

To complicate things further, if I were to take this secondment, somebody else would be offered a secondment into my role for their own career progression purposes. I'd want to be sure that I could still go back to my substantive role under these conditions. (Ideally, both secondments would go well and we'd both get promotions, but I'm a worrier and I assume this wouldn't happen.)

Hope that makes sense. Does anybody have any advice please?

Thanks very much.

[Luna]

Reading that, I’d stay put! But I have no experience of such things!

[Ella77]

Hah, I see what you mean, but the main positive is that it would get me further away from a really awful person, whereas if I stay put he's a daily problem. (I would still have to interact with him, but on a different footing.) Also the career progression.

[Pippedydeadeye]

I would do it, you should be able to go back to your previous role. In practice, many people don’t because they either get made permanent in the seconded role, or move onto bigger & better things.

[Ella77]

Thanks, Pip. Do you know what the rules are about how long you can be seconded before going back (if you want to)? I have Googled, but it's not clear to me.

[Luna]

Oh. Dilemma. Aggravating man is a good motive for the change. I’d look into it more to be sure I could return if the secondment doesn’t work out well.

[Pippedydeadeye]

I’m not sure if that’s a local decision? I know a colleague who is seconded and that’s for 2 years and her replacement is on a FTC.

[Ella77]

Ah, ok, so there's not one overarching law that says if you do it for (e.g.) 6 months and a day, that's it, you have to move jobs. The reason I ask is that I wouldn't want to be forced to stay in a job I was failing at (potentially) and then got rid of on that basis. I'm not failing at my current job (that I know of ).

[Squirrel]

I think (very rusty on this) that you would need to agree the terms and ask for a secondment agreement that sets it all out. I don’t think there are hard and fast rules, it’s up to the individual employers to set the terms as long as they are following the bits of employment law that do apply to all situations. I think you’re right to prioritise protecting yourself in the long term and minimising the likelihood of some weird grey area at the end of the secondment.

[purple_dress]

I think it's that after two years in a role you are entitled to the terms and conditions you have in that role? So a FTC is never longer than that. In terms of your substantive role, I know that in my organisation they have to have a role of the same level and terms and conditions for you to return to but it doesn't have to be the exact same job if that job was deemed to be redundant in your absence.

[Squirrel]

I meant to say that no, I don’t believe that a secondment automatically becomes considered permanent after a period of time, and this is exactly the sort of thing an agreement would address. There’s an example of the sort of thing I mean here:
https://www.local.gov.uk/sites/default/files/documents/workforce%20-%20Employers%27%20e-guide%20no.6%20–%20A%20guide%20to%20the%20law%20on%20secondments%20-%20April%202020.pdf

[Luce]

I know your question is about what protections are in place but I don't know the answer to that so will just say I definitely think you should go for it. I always think secondments are the most obvious way to progress* are only a good thing assuming there is a safety net.

*yes, yes, what I would I know about these things etc

[Annabella]

I think Squirrel and PD are correct - you need to agree the terms with your employer but is should confirm the you are able to return to same level and terms as you have now if not that exact position. I would go for it - if you are being offered it I would think in general the person recommending you thinks you can do it and just need a period of try it and see.

[Ella77]

Just to say sorry for not replying properly to all these posts yet, and thank you so much for the replies. I’ve had a grim migraine for a few days now so I haven’t had the brain power for anything other than my usual facetious comments . Thank you all, though.

[Ella77]

Quick update; thanks for all the advice above. I've been officially offered it today, and I think they were a bit put out that I said I wanted to see what HR came up with before agreeing to anything (I did say it nicely though). I'm hoping they will be sensible. My number one concern is protecting myself and being able to fall back to doing my current job if it all turns out to be awful. I'd be managing 9 people if I did this, and I've managed to fuck around for years only worrying about myself, so that would be a big adjustment.

[Dandelion]

Congrats, Ella! You are wise to make sure you have an escape route, especially in these strange times.

You’ll be a great manager! Whip all those mediocre white men into shape.

[smalex]

Yes, congratulations on being offered it, I hope they come up with something you can accept!

[Pippedydeadeye]

Congratulations!

Get them to give you loads of management help too.

[Derek Nimmo]

Get them to give you loads of management help too.

100% this! To go from being a sole contributor to full on line management of a team of 9 is a huge step, and not something you (anybody) can do without a lot of support and coaching.

(Not that I mean to rain on your parade - exciting times, and I hope HR come up with the goods.)

[Ella77]

Thanks, guys. I've said I'll need a clear description of expectations and a roadmap for training to support those expectations. Unfortunately there's a bit of a "make the job your own" attitude which is good in one sense (I've been able to veto some things I definitely don't want to be doing) but a bit vague also. Those people's current manager is nice but a bit lazy/disorganised and I do know they want a bit more of his attention than they're getting.

I can't tell if it's the way out of a difficult situation or just another type of shitshow .