The Mock Turtle

I read that and it is worrying... I guess the judgement call is that the cumulative negative effect on disrupted education, possible long covid and how much it fuels the case loads generally is worthwhile.

The likelihood of getting Covid and having negative effects from it is massively higher though, surely? Plus covid itself (like many other viruses) can cause myocarditis.


Incidence of myocarditis in a general pediatric population.

I read this to mean that the increase due to the vaccine is negligible, mid-teen boys are just vulnerable to myocarditis.

The Guardian article says boys are 4 times more likely to be admitted with Vaccine-related myocarditis compared to covid itself.

I've just heard that over 50s are to be offered a booster 6 months after their second dose. That would have meant mine was due on the 1st of September. I'll need to discuss with work or my GP I don't know

My mum's second dose was January 9th as age was in the very first cohert with a three week gap

She's 81 so I assume she'll hear something soon

I interpreted it as no earlier than six months after the second dose, so not a fixed six month gap. Hopefully we'll find out more today.

I think the thing about that article is not that the risk of myocarditis is that significant, but that the risk of boys that age getting serious illness from covid is so low that the risk/benefit ratio could make one decide that it's not worth it. That's just looking at it on the basis of the individiual experience/health, rather than the wider impacts on transmission, education etc.

This is easy for me to say though, not having a boy in that age range.

Of course it's much easier for me to debate as it's just theoretical, but I feel like the risks of potential bad vaccine outcome need to be measured against all potential bad outcomes of getting covid, not only the worst case scenario.

I just looked at the NHS site for the MMR vaccine and it says

www.nhs.uk wrote:There's a small chance of having a seizure (fit) 6 to 11 days after the MMR vaccine. This can be caused by having a high temperature in response to the measles vaccine virus.
It may sound alarming but having a seizure after the MMR vaccine is rare. They happen in about 1 in every 1,000 doses given.

Maybe there are more worst case scenarios for children who get one of the M M R viruses than for children who get covid, but the side effects risk is apparently much higher too, and the vaccine is accepted.

(In looking this up I see the UK has apparently eliminated rubella, but not measles or mumps).

Re. non-validated vaccines, people coming to live in France having received any "unofficial" vaccine get an antibody test and then either one or two approved doses. I've heard anecdotally that the Sinopharm vaccine shows no antibodies on people being tested 6 months later.

I do too, but if they've found this to be true (the myocarditis stuff) then its right that its in the news and becomes part of how we weigh up whether they should or shouldn't be vaccinated. I'd still get W done in a flash (but he's not old enough) because the risks seem low and there are so many unknowns re the longer term with covid (and because I think its better in a wider sense)

I've just had the text and booked my 3rd dose booster for tomorrow! I'm in the top priority group for the booster though because I'm on immunosuppressants.

Oh wow Flora!

I kind of wish I was 50+.

That's great Flora.

I'm half listening to the press conference and they said the fall off of effectiveness is from just over 90% to just under 90% which isn't anywhere as bad as I'd been imagining given the headlines!

I think the "requiring hospital attention" is a bit vague. Boys suffering from myocarditis after the vaccine were closely monitored, as one would hope. That doesn't equate to seriously ill. My understanding is that the cases are usually resolved quickly. It definitely gives me pause for vaccinating my son, but ultimately I'll probably go ahead with it unless there is further evidence to the contrary. He's not eligible yet.

R (11) got her second dose of Pfizer last week. She complained a lot about a sore arm after the first dose, and after the second she had a day of flu-like symptoms but right as rain again now. Which is great, because at the end of the month she will be expected to have a vaccine certificate, just like adults, in order to go to certain places.

Please help me to decide what to do because I'm really really torn and I've only got until tomorrow to decide.

My main bit of my trial is finished, but I'm due to have a booster tomorrow afternoon as an extension of the trial, which I agreed to some time ago. The government (having made some political hay out of it a while ago) have unceremoniously dumped the deal with Valneva and Sajid Javid said yesterday it 'wouldn't have got approved anyway'. The doctor on the trial just rang to discuss it, poor woman sounded so weary. She said the phase 1 and 2 trial results were good (they came out quite some time ago now) and that *no one*, not even Valneva, knows the results of the phase 3 trial, so they're all at a complete loss as to why he's said that. She says they're intent on purusing approval (presuming the P3 trial is positive) in the UK still.

But I have no travel status so its going to be much more difficult to travel and there doesn't seem to be any movement on getting this sorted out for trial participants and approval could take many months (and if the government are intent on being pricks about it, they'll not hurry themselves). The doctor said that they've followed quite a few participants who've had vlneva and then gone and got two doses of something else, and they're fine, but no one has had 5 (3 valneva + 2 others) yet. I'd very much like to travel next february (if its an option at the time, obviously, may not be).

I don't know whether to go ahead, wait and see what happens, possibly get another vaccine around christmas time. Or just cut my losses now.

My instinct is to cut your losses and get a travel approved vaccine. That would be my priority anyway. I think we’re going to be moving into more areas where only double vaxed will be approved and - whilst I’m not desperate to go to a Scottish nightclub - being able to travel would be a priority.

I think I’d do what Luce says. It’s a shame but you don’t really need the uncertainty around it all.

I agree with the above comments; you’ve more than done your bit to support science and the greater good. It looks as if your vaccine is turning into a political football and no one needs that shit

Time to do what’s right for you and your plans.

If you want to travel, then getting approved vaccinations seems like your only option really.

Little My wrote: ↑Wed Sep 15, 2021 5:09 pm If you want to travel, then getting approved vaccinations seems like your only option really.

Yeah, I was hoping this might be approved by the end of the year (that's what they were hoping) so then I'd be covered, but that seems massively like a pipe dream now.
Political football is right edith! The lovely NHS doctor running the trial in my hospital actually called it 'fake news'. I'm so fucked off about it, 4000 people have committed to doing this for the greater good, for them to act like this. I probably shouldn't be surprised.

God that stinks, doesn’t it. People are supposed to be getting vaccinated for health reasons not travel pass reasons yet that’s what it has ended up being (partly) about. I am not one of them but you can see where conspiracy theorists get their ideas from.