The Mock Turtle

I'm very pro-vaccine and have been exasperated several times by anti-vax idiots on FB.
However, Covid vaccination has opened here for 5-11 year olds and I'm hesitating over whether to get Anna (5) vaccinated.
She's had all other vaccines, because I'm not a complete idiot and has never had an adverse reaction, but Covid...I'm just not sure about.
I've been kind of sticking my head in the sand about it, but then I read this and I'm thinking I should probably make a decision.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/07/heal ... s-cdc.html

Would you/have you got your small kids done?

I would happily get mine (2 years old) done if I could.

George aged 12 got his done at school. I booked his second for the end of Jan. S was hesitant which I was surprised about but we had a discussion with G and he was adamant that he wanted to get it.

If vaccines open up for Liv I’ll give consent too.

Vaccines opened up for 5-11 year olds pre Christmas here and both boys had theirs done.

It helped that they were really keen and I felt like I knew far more about this vaccine than any of the others I’d merrily put into their bodies over the years.

T didn’t react at all and M was a little tired for a day or two post jab if that helps at all.

Kenickie wrote: ↑Sat Jan 08, 2022 1:41 pm I would happily get mine (2 years old) done if I could.

Can you elaborate on why, Ken?

olive wrote: ↑Sat Jan 08, 2022 2:14 pm Vaccines opened up for 5-11 year olds pre Christmas here and both boys had theirs done.

It helped that they were really keen and I felt like I knew far more about this vaccine than any of the others I’d merrily put into their bodies over the years.

T didn’t react at all and M was a little tired for a day or two post jab if that helps at all.

Do you mind me asking what age they are, olive?

I just don’t see it any different to any other vaccination and would get both of mine done if I could (2 & 4). They’ve had every other possible vaccination going.

As I see it, they are the risk in our household in terms of catching/spreading it now, and are too young to keep a distance/wear masks.

What is making you hesitate, Zoom? Have you spoken to a doctor about it?

H (13) has had her first and will get her 2nd soon. She wanted to get both.

If/when they open it up for younger children, I will get Z (11) and TBL (9) vaccinated too.

Well, it is different because it's newer. I realise that's the anti-vax argument, but..See the "arguments against" bit here. https://www.academie-medecine.fr/should ... 9/?lang=en

That's the highest medical authority in France. In November they were advising against a generalised rollout for 5-11, and then changed that advice at the end of December to advise for it.

Zoomer wrote: ↑Sat Jan 08, 2022 2:22 pm

olive wrote: ↑Sat Jan 08, 2022 2:14 pm Vaccines opened up for 5-11 year olds pre Christmas here and both boys had theirs done.

It helped that they were really keen and I felt like I knew far more about this vaccine than any of the others I’d merrily put into their bodies over the years.

T didn’t react at all and M was a little tired for a day or two post jab if that helps at all.

Do you mind me asking what age they are, olive?

9 and 11. What’s making you think twice about this one?

For full transparency 12-17 had opened up here long before 5-11 and lots of T’s friends are already 12 and were being vaccinated which helped.

We were travelling back to the U.K. and it definitely gave me piece of mind knowing that they weren’t more vulnerable than I was too.

Lily wrote: ↑Sat Jan 08, 2022 2:48 pm What is making you hesitate, Zoom? Have you spoken to a doctor about it?

The possibility of long-term side effects (loss of fertility or the ilk). Benefit/risk thing, I suppose.

Zoomer wrote: ↑Sat Jan 08, 2022 2:55 pm

Lily wrote: ↑Sat Jan 08, 2022 2:48 pm What is making you hesitate, Zoom? Have you spoken to a doctor about it?

The possibility of long-term side effects (loss of fertility or the ilk). Benefit/risk thing, I suppose.

I guess the flip side of this is that we also don’t know huge amounts about the long term side effects of having covid repeatedly either which is probably most likely to happen to children through ongoing exposure at school and a lack of symptoms.

That link is interesting. It is unlike other vaccinations we receive in that, as it says:

"– the ethical principle that the vaccination of children, who are at low risk of developing severe forms of the disease, should not be used to achieve herd immunity in order to compensate for the refusal of some adults to be vaccinated"

Nobody knows what the longterm risks of the vaccine, if any, are - but that's been the same of other vaccines. Having said that, other vaccines have been against much more dangerous diseases. Where does the fear about infertility come from? (Genuine question not to Zoom in particular)

olive wrote: ↑Sat Jan 08, 2022 3:03 pm

Zoomer wrote: ↑Sat Jan 08, 2022 2:55 pm

Lily wrote: ↑Sat Jan 08, 2022 2:48 pm What is making you hesitate, Zoom? Have you spoken to a doctor about it?

The possibility of long-term side effects (loss of fertility or the ilk). Benefit/risk thing, I suppose.

I guess the flip side of this is that we also don’t know huge amounts about the long term side effects of having covid repeatedly either which is probably most likely to happen to children through ongoing exposure at school and a lack of symptoms.

Yes, the possibility of long covid or other illnesses triggered by Covid (like the diabetes thing in my first post) is the reason I'm flip-flapping wildly.

If it was just for "the good of society", I wouldn't do it. And yes, I know that's selfish, but she's only 5 and what Beatrix said. :))

Zoomer wrote: ↑Sat Jan 08, 2022 2:21 pm

Kenickie wrote: ↑Sat Jan 08, 2022 1:41 pm I would happily get mine (2 years old) done if I could.

Can you elaborate on why, Ken?

Same as Morri really. I don't want them to get Covid, and I definitely don't want to have to try and care for them with Covid when I have it myself. The same reason I got them (and me and P) vaccinated against flu.

If it's being offered on an underfunded NHS then I'd assume that the benefit/risk analysis has been done and it's beneficial especially considering the vaccinations the NHS doesn't do (eg chickenpox).

If kids aren’t vaccinated it might stop you travelling etc too. I know people with kids 12+ who had to cancel holidays because the choice was everyone had to be vaccinated or pay to quarantine. And for a half term holiday the quarantine period was as long as the holiday.

My colleague just got back from the states where they couldn’t go in restaurants in NY with her unvaccinated kids.

F has had two jabs now and I wouldn’t hesitate to get Theo done if it was allowed. He’s had Covid and it was barely noticeable so n wouldn’t do it for his benefit really but to help lower transmissions so we can all go back to normal life. I’ve given them every jab going up until now so this feels no different. I’m not remotely swayed by potential long term risks with the jab, no.

I think if you're not getting your children vaccinated, then you need to think about how to protect them in other ways. Particularly reducing the risk of exposure. For example, we had no intention of getting on a plane last year with both of our kids unvaccinated.

Long covid is a concern, and even children with very minor symptoms were found to have lung damage in some US studies. There are a lot of long term unknowns on both sides.

My 12 year old is fully vaccinated (was done when she was 11), and my 10 year old has had his first, and will have his second this month.

Zoomer wrote: ↑Sat Jan 08, 2022 2:55 pm The possibility of long-term side effects (loss of fertility or the ilk). Benefit/risk thing, I suppose.

As far as I know all of those long-term side effects have been debunked, except for myocarditis. Children definitely are at an elevated risk of myocarditis from Pfizer and Moderna. However, we now know they are still more likely to be hospitalised with covid if they don't get the vaccine than they are with myocarditis if they do. That's why the NHS have now expanded second shots for 12-16 year olds here.

Covid vaccines for children, unlike with adults, are not a no-brainer. I looked into it before I got the chaps vaccinated and then I looked into it again when they were offered a second shot. Initially they thought second shots for boys might tip vaccines into being more risky than covid, but we now know they don't. When I say I looked into it, I mean that I actually read BMJ articles like a total neurotic. :lol:

My chaps have been vaccinated for everything and I am generally very pro-vaccine. However, I'm not blindly so. They've both had Covid and weren't ill at all so that affected my thought process - however, after balancing it all out, I still decided to get them vaccinated. I would rather minimise the chances of them having rare covid complications but also I don't want them passing it onto anyone else (specifically their grandparents but not least me! I certainly wasn't symptomless.) . If they're vaccinated it does reduce the likelihood of them spreading it. The ability to travel or the possibility of vaccine passports being introduced was also a consideration for me.