Economy drive

[Skips]

Absolutely, but I also think when setting a budget it needs to be realistic for the time period you are planning to pay debts off over. One month on a tight corset budget is fine, but over time you generally just feel the pressure more and more and that's when you're likely to throw off that corset and it all goes to pot. Lily could be made of sterner stuff, of course, but it only takes a quick look on other debt boards to see that using a basic budget tracker covers entertainment/holidays/eating out. Even on a debt management plan they account for these things as it's about long term sustainability.

[Lily]

I didn't read anything as offensive at all - but I do have to be aggressive about this. The myriad of reasons I'm not being is why I'm in this state, so I don't mind being prodded at all. But Skips is right in that if I go all "cold turkey" I might go off the rails again. I really, really don't want to do that. I don't want to get into the place I was 10 or so years ago when I lost loads of weight but couldn't afford new trousers, so walked around looking like Krusty. There's got to be a happ medium!

The way I have been looking at clothing is changing too; I really want to buy good quality sustainable products (like Baukjen for example, which I love) so when I see items in the sale, at a good price, I snap them up even if I can't afford them. But now I am thinking - once I have cleared my credit cards I can legitimately afford full-price items, if I need them, and be comfortable about it. It's changing habits, just like PG says. It's going that bit more out of my way to go to a cheaper supermarket; not going out for dinner and having friends over instead; cancelling or postponing nail appointments (threading and hair are necessities!); going to the cinema on a Meerkat night so we only pay £5 each; even silly little things like cutting Lush bath bombs into quarters so they last longer. Small things that add up to make a big difference.

[Montana]

For cinema savings, Groupon has an Odeon voucher deal at the moment - I think £20 for 5 tickets which is amazing value.

[ParisGal]

Absolutely, but I also think when setting a budget it needs to be realistic for the time period you are planning to pay debts off over. One month on a tight corset budget is fine, but over time you generally just feel the pressure more and more and that's when you're likely to throw off that corset and it all goes to pot. Lily could be made of sterner stuff, of course, but it only takes a quick look on other debt boards to see that using a basic budget tracker covers entertainment/holidays/eating out. Even on a debt management plan they account for these things as it's about long term sustainability.

No-one reasonable expects anyone to be able to live happily with no leisure or entertainment or fun. But it depends what your starting point is, and what your income and basic needs are. If I've inferred correctly from Lily's various posts, she has two permanent jobs plus some other variable income, so should be able to have quite a few non-essential nice things every month.

But I think Lily also has a social circle including people who are well off (have holiday homes abroad, go to balls...). So maybe the idea of what normal levels of spending is has been distorted a bit? I'm guessing completely, but I know that when I was close friends with two women who came from families with way more money than me, I started to feel that shopping every weekend was normal, occasionally buying expensive handbags, sometimes going on expensive weekend breaks. None of it was extravagant, but it was at a level a bit higher than what I could comfortably pay for long term. As it turned out we stopped being so close as they moved back to England and I stayed over here, but it was certainly simple for me to cut back on that sort of thing; it had just started to feel normal.

It's a different scenario (if I've understood correctly) than the situation Digs mentions where you've already cut out the totally optional stuff and are having to cut by scaling down other things too.

Lily, it strikes me it's going to be difficult for you to make big reductions in your outgoings, and buy things that are plastic-free, more sustainable, better quality, etc. etc. all at the same time. I've had to increase our groceries budget quite a bit due to my dietary choices so I've had to balance it out elsewhere.

[H1ppychick]

Lily I’d still wait for sales to buy stuff cheaper, you just don’t need to snap at buying something every time a sale comes up and make sure it’s covered by your budget! There’s no point throwing money away.

IIRC both Aldi and LIDL sell Red Tractor certified meat and I buy their free range eggs. As someone upstream said it’s also useful to shop somewhere minimalistic like that so as to avoid unnecessary spends (middle aisle stuff notwithstanding!).

[Luce]

I'm sorry if this is teaching you to suck eggs but I was astounded by how much I saved myself every month by cutting down on my subscriptions to stuff. I stupidly never thought to cut them because I didn't think it would make enough of a saving but I had a huge overhaul of everything - changing electricity/gas, cancelling Sky and getting Freesat instead, Netflix, Amazon prime, audible, national trust etc etc. I'm sure there were more but by keeping just a few select ones I was able to save myself £££s with only a little change in lifestyle.

Sorry, that's all really patronising and I was stupid about it but I just couldn't believe how much it added up to.

[Lily]

If only we had an Odeon near us! Cineworld all the way. Bah.

In fairness to my stupidly wealthy friends (I feel like Meg in Little Women ) they aren't flashy with their cash and are respectful of the fact I'm not from one of Those families. I know their way of living is very different to mine, which is fine. I would say most of my friends around me have normal lifestyles and aren't particularly profligate. I don't think I am obscenely profligate to be honest, but I have no idea about budgeting, panic about having any kind of money so I need to get rid of it for some ridiculous reason and comfort-spend. I have lived hand-to-mouth for most of my working life, so it is a real mind shift stopping doing that. In fact I think that's the main problem here: I have got so used to living like this.

I would happily buy sale items Hippy; the aim is to be in a position where I can, if I want, buy full price, if that makes sense. It's not about aiming to buy full price so much as aiming to have that freedom.

The middle lane at Aldi fills me with dread for some unfathomable reason so I'm not in danger of that. I plan to do a shop there this week. Mr & Mrs Bruv are both v high earners but they budget and shop at Aldi, etc., as does Very Wealthy Friend, which just goes to show even rich people are cautious about money! Red Tractor meat unfortunately is about as inhumane as humane meat gets, but I just need to buy higher quality and less of it. For example at the end of January when I really needed meat but was determined not to put the butcher on my credit card (as I would usually do) I just ate eggs for my protein fix.

It's not patronising, Luce, at all - things really add up. My Sky is only £11 a month which is great for me but I am going to cancel Netflix once I finish with The Crown, and you have reminded me I need to revisit my energy supplier as the time is up for renewal. I am quite strict about changing every year.

[nineseven]

Rich people are often careful with money (that’s how they stay rich).

[Lily]

Will used to say "Millionaires never tip."

[H1ppychick]

Red Tractor certification includes animal welfare provisions, I think it’s not very well policed and enforced though.

[Lily]

This is a good article about labels.

https://www.ciwf.org.uk/your-food/meat- ... n-poultry/

Only problem is, now I want to donate £6 a month to help them.

[Luce]

Will used to say "Millionaires never tip."

I’m neither a millionaire or a non-tipper but that really made me laugh I’m technically the most financially comfortable that I’ve been so far (I don’t have loads of money but for the first time I have savings and no non-mortgage debts) and I am tighter than I’ve ever been. I’m like Gollum with money, these days. It’s like you get addicted to that safe feeling. I totally get it. The richest people I knew growing up (they had a bloody yacht) always had Tesco Value crisps and it blew my mind

[Squirrel]

Yes I’m sure I’ve mentioned before that the family I work for are extremely wealthy but very tight with money, particularly the husband. He once complained that we were using too many paper clips!

Luce I need to do that with our subscriptions. I don’t buy things for myself much, like coffee or magazines and very rarely buy clothes or cosmetics (yes, I look like a scarecrow). But I’ve got various subscriptions, I’m not getting my money’s worth from them and could definitely cut down a lot there.

Lily sorry if I’ve missed this but do you keep a spending diary? It’s all very well us suggesting what you could cut back on, but in reality everyone’s spending habits are different and only you can really see where you could make savings.

Also you mentioned a feeling of comfort spending and an urge to get rid of money. That rings loud bells for me; can you tell at the time when you’re doing it, or is it only in hindsight?

[Beena]

Lily sorry if I’ve missed this but do you keep a spending diary? It’s all very well us suggesting what you could cut back on, but in reality everyone’s spending habits are different and only you can really see where you could make savings.

I was going to suggest looking at Kakeibo budgeting, which is essentially writing down exactly what comes in and goes out each month, with a savings plan. We did this a couple of years ago and it does make you think about your spending. I was sceptical that it was all a bit woo, but there's something about pen and paper lists that works for me.

You can get downloadable sheets here - https://www.credit.com/personal-finance/kakeibo/

[Lily]

On the spreadsheet that Jet sent me I list all my transactions. I am quite obsessive about tracking it all as it calculates how much I'll have left, etc. and how much I have to pay off, that kind of thing. It also groups my transactions so I can see what I'm spending the most on. However it might be worth me doing this Kakeibo thing too, as I find writing stuff down works more for me. I know it's all a lot of admin, but it's worth it.

The "comfort spending" I am kind of aware of when it's happening. It's just I don't care. Before Christmas when I was really unhappy I was at the limit of both overdrafts (I have another v small one with a 'spare' account), maxed my credit card and was in a real state. I forced myself into that position - I wanted to be that desperate and miserable.

Kind of like with my eating, when I think "How will I feel after eating this? Can I cope with it or will I have to be sick, and if so can I handle what that will do to my body/skin/teeth etc" which works, I'm now trying to think "Before I buy this - why am I buying it? Do I really need it? How will I feel after buying it?" and that kind of thing.

I budgeted for £20 in Asda this morning (I've had knee physio and couldn't bear the drive to Aldi) and spent £22 which wasn't bad going. I did feel awful buying fish in plastic packaging. Next time I will take my own biodegradable bags.

[wendy james]

I had a huge overhaul of everything - changing electricity/gas, cancelling Sky and getting Freesat instead, Netflix, Amazon prime, audible, national trust etc etc.

I’ve just done similar working through the MSE money makeover list. Broadband/TV is the big saver, but I reckon I’ve saved us a grand a year minimum. I’m switching both our current accounts and the joint account so will bank £375 between us, which seems madness!

[Lily]

Well it's been just over a month since I went on my road to Damascus, and I would like to thank you all for the help you've given me. I wound up at the end of this month £100 into my overdraft. Normally I am up to my neck in this overdraft and the other one from my spare HSBC account and having used my credit card, so although it doesn't sound like an achievement, it is!

I haven't put anything on my credit card apart from flights and hotels, which I have just paid off thanks to this month's small (but nevertheless very welcome) bonus. Oh and my stupid congestion penalty charge. But that's an expensive lesson which I've now learned.

My spending in general has been much more restrained because I'm being much more thoughtful about it - where am I going to buy things? Do I need xyz? This month I treated myself, it really felt like a treat. Last weekend I bought myself a Lush lip balm and really looked forward to doing so all week . I also got a White Company candle, which at one point I would have seen as a " household essential" . I was trying on some Hourglass make up and before this I would have thought "sod it" and put it on my credit card/gone further into my overdraft thinking "I'll pay it off on payday" but I walked away and will buy it today. Which again is something I'm looking forward to. I've been cooking for friends rather than going out to eat.

I'm a bit nervous about next month, as I won't have a bonus and will be paying council tax again, so things will be trickier, but hopefully it will still be manageable.

I haven't got any savings so far, but I am going to try and save £200 a month. I put aside £200 last month but had to pay my health insurance excess and book a flight for my yoga retreat so bruv said to use my savings for that.

So this is a bit of a broadcast, but I'm feeling much more positive and a bit pleased with how I've done. Thank you all so much for your advice and support; it's made all the difference.

Skips, how are you getting on?

[rosy]

You’re doing brilliantly, Lily.

[Wiggle]

Wow that's an amazing step forward, I am really impressed on how you are taking control.

[Edith Bacon]

That sounds so positive, Lily! Really well done and keep up the good work.