Tax return SEISS question

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Rebel Pebble
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Tax return SEISS question

Post by Rebel Pebble »

I'm bored enough to contemplate doing my Return for 19-20 soon. Am I correct that the first SEISS payment was for March - May so I need to include one month of it?

I was certain about this but then Mr R said he thought it was for April-June and I got all confused.
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bramblerose
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Re: Tax return SEISS question

Post by bramblerose »

I've just had a rummage and found this
The SEISS grant is taxable in the year of receipt (i.e. 2020/21), meaning that there will be no apportionment back to the tax year 2019/20. It should therefore be reported in full on your 2020/21 self-assessment tax return
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AshleyX
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Re: Tax return SEISS question

Post by AshleyX »

I wouldn’t. Just leave it for next year as you didn’t get it until after the year end, regardless of which months it might be for. Lots of people did their tax returns way before they got the grant.
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Re: Tax return SEISS question

Post by Rebel Pebble »

Ah OK, cool. Thanks both. That's good.

I usually report what I've invoiced for in said tax year rather than based on when I've been paid hence my confusion.
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Re: Tax return SEISS question

Post by nineseven »

I’ve already done mine :)) #square

And yes, what they said.
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Re: Tax return SEISS question

Post by Rebel Pebble »

I still haven't done mine. :lol:

However, I just wanted to check I'm not going mad. The first two grants covered March-August or at least April- September didn't they? So why does the new shit 20% thing start from November?

I may be totally confused about this, and it obviously dovetails with furlough ending but did furlough not run from April then? Somehow a month is lost whichever way I look at it.
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Re: Tax return SEISS question

Post by nineseven »

I think they’ve all come out later than the months they’re meant to cover.
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Rebel Pebble
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Re: Tax return SEISS question

Post by Rebel Pebble »

But either way we've had six months of SEISS support since March/April. That doesn't get you to November, any way you slice it. Unless April wasn't actually covered and it "started" in May.

I don't know why I'm letting this bug me. :lol: It is what it is etc.
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Re: Tax return SEISS question

Post by nineseven »

Ah yes, it doesn't does it? Odd. The first two were April-June and July-Sept. So October is missing.
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Re: Tax return SEISS question

Post by Mountain Goat »

I have a question about the SEISS thing that I can't find an answer to. I will check with my accountant but I know they're incredibly busy now and won't get back to me for ages.

So, you are eligible for the latest grant as long as you can prove your income for Nov to Jan is less than it usually is. This is definitely the case for me. But, does your income have to be less than usual when you also add in the grant, or is it your actual business alone that counts? Ridiculously I am concerned that if I take on a piece of work I'm discussing for January, it might bump me over the threshold and mean I have to pay back and possibly face penalties etc too, but I don't actually know what the threshold is. I've already been paid the third grant.
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Re: Tax return SEISS question

Post by bramblerose »

I don't think there is a threshold. I have claimed as, as the tiers stand I know my income will be lower, but if the tiers changed, my income could increase.

I would claim unless you know the piece of work will make you the same amount of money as you would normally make



I have had wine so I'm not sure if I make sense.
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Re: Tax return SEISS question

Post by Mountain Goat »

Thank you! It definitely wouldn't make me the same amount as I would normally make, but it would mean that my income +grant would be at about normal level. But if that isn't allowed, then people must only be allowed to earn 20% of what they would normally make and then you would need SOME top up but not all of it, but there isn't a pathway to a half grant, so I think it must be on your actual invoices? Otherwise you'd have people earning 25% of their normal income not being able to claim?

I haven't had wine but I am very tired so may not make sense. :))
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Re: Tax return SEISS question

Post by bramblerose »

At present, I am at about 70-75% of my normal income (including the grant). I will be getting paid a lot less in Dec, Jan and Feb,if the tiers stay as they are (we work mainly with the hospitality sector #fucked)

I have claimed the last grant and if the powers that be think I have claimed too much and have to pay it back, then so be it.
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Re: Tax return SEISS question

Post by Mountain Goat »

I'm currently at about 80% of normal income for the year up to end Dec (including the grant). It's impossible for me to guess how much work there might be over Jan/Feb/March though - I was surprised to be offered this work for Jan so far in advance as things have been very slow and it may mean things are picking up, or it may just be a one-off. My actual income is only about a third of what it usually is.
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Re: Tax return SEISS question

Post by Rebel Pebble »

While I'm definitely well below normal average earnings even including the grant this question did form in my mind about Mr R. Only because he was pencilled for an ad which would have substantially increased his income in this year. I told him to not apply for the latest grant until he knew, and in the event he didn't get it.

Even so, he is in a similar position to you in that WITH the grant and the voice work his income overall is OK, partly because one of the tax years which is counting towards the amount they give him was a very good year. But if you took the grant away, it would be a shit year. So I'm not worried. I don't think you should either. They're going to come for us all in the future, while letting Amazon continue to pay fuck all so take the money now.
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Re: Tax return SEISS question

Post by Mountain Goat »

Thanks Rebs. That is really similar to me, I also had an unusually good couple of years in the three they work from, plus my expenses are minimal (mostly just home office stuff) so my profit: turnover ratio is high - it all means a good grant. And yes, I feel the same way about it - without the grant, I'd have had a terrible year and it's not like I have the option to claim half the grant or something (eg to top up my income to the average for the three years and no more) - it's all or nothing. Which I can understand from a cost of admin point of view - I'm just concerned that might come back to bite me if I take on too much more work, if it's available.

I need to pay my accountant so I'll do that first and then message her to see what she says. It seems stupid if I need to turn away work, how does that help anyone? But if payback involves (as I've read it does) penalty fees and interest, I'd be a lot worse off for taking on more work. :ruby: Lower than usual earnings, no grant, and fines.

I also feel guilty either way - I don't want to "benefit" from this situation* when so many people are so fucked over. But nor do I want to martyr myself.

* however, work slowness is likely to continue well after the SEISS is over so I wouldn't long term.
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Re: Tax return SEISS question

Post by bramblerose »

I think, when I claimed, it stated that if you thought, at the time of claiming, that you would be adversely affected then you should claim and it didn't matter if you then got work later on, as long as you keep records. No-one can know how much their work is going to be affected in December and January
Reasonable belief
In order to claim, you must reasonably believe that you will suffer a significant reduction in trading profits due to reduced business activity, capacity or demand or inability to trade due to coronavirus during the period 1 November to 29 January 2021. You must keep evidence that shows how your business has been impacted by coronavirus resulting in less business activity than otherwise expected.
I wouldn't beat myself up about it and if I were you, I'd claim. Keep some of it to one side if you think you may need to.

I have just submitted an invoice this month for 32% of my normal fee (I agreed to a % of sales in order to help keep the company going). I very much suspect that December, January and February will be the same or worse :ruby:
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Re: Tax return SEISS question

Post by Mountain Goat »

Oh god Bramble. I'm sorry, that's rubbish. My pay is the officially same, except in practice it isn't, because they're packaging up a week's worth of work as 2-3 days work so I'm working crazy hours to get something unreasonable done for half the fee it should be. In some cases this is recognised and compensated but in others, they've only got the work to give to me because they've massively underpriced it in the first place.

Thanks for that. It does imply that reduced business activity is enough (not including the grant), doesn't it? I don't trust these bastards though. I've already claimed and already have the money. :))
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Re: Tax return SEISS question

Post by Rebel Pebble »

I'm sorry to hear that Bramble. I know how you feel!
bramblerose wrote: Fri Dec 18, 2020 12:06 pm I think, when I claimed, it stated that if you thought, at the time of claiming, that you would be adversely affected then you should claim and it didn't matter if you then got work later on, as long as you keep records. No-one can know how much their work is going to be affected in December and January:
Yes, I think this is what it basically said. I mean it definitely banged on this time round A LOT more threateningly about ARE YOU SURE YOU'RE ADVERSELY AFFECTED? (which is why I told Mr R to wait until he heard about the ad) but like so much this government comes out with, in the end it's all just so much piss and wind.

You can't see into the future and any decent accountant would be able to argue you out of any fines on that basis alone, should - in a year's time when you submit your Return - anyone in HMRC have the manpower, time or energy to give a shit. Which I seriously doubt they will.

And of course our incomes are going to be fucked well beyond the end of SEISS.

In short, I wouldn't turn down work, no way.
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Re: Tax return SEISS question

Post by Mountain Goat »

Very true, all good points. What a pile of crap this all is.
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