The Mock Turtle

In Summer 2019 we had a driving holiday in Portugal using a hire car. For the rare times we used the motorways, we paid Avis to have the little auto toll doofer you need. All paid up and settled, done and dusted over three years ago.

EXCEPT

Today a flipping penalty notice plops through the letterbox. Little pic of our hire car, with a date and time saying we failed to pay the motorway toll. Once my brain caught up and I figured out WTF it was and that this wasn't identity theft or whatever, both Mr R and I vaguely remembered one time when the thing didn't do its customary beep when we passed the toll.

It's basically £14 (8.11 original toll, 5.87 penalty). I want to just pay the stupid thing, Mr R wants to get into it with Avis because it's their whatsit that failed. I cannot be arsed. I have no idea what the strict legal position would be (I am curious though, purely theoretically) but it doesn't seem worth dragging it out for the amount.

Although it is obviously easier to just pay it and be done with it, I would ignore it just to be bloody minded.

Topcat wrote: ↑Sat Nov 26, 2022 12:21 pm Although it is obviously easier to just pay it and be done with it, I would ignore it just to be bloody minded.

This is what I am curious about what would happen if we did, and what the legal realities are.

It's a UK Bank Account they give you to pay into, "Euro Parking Collection Plc" but the letter itself is headed from Globalvia which is the company that runs the tolls.

Beatrix wrote: ↑Sat Nov 26, 2022 12:38 pm We got an admin fee from the hire car company for speeding in France and advised we’d receive a fine from the gendarmes, this was within 6 months of hiring. We never did receive the fine. We’ve hired a car with no issues since. I know it’s a different country etc but I just don’t think after three years that charge could be reasonably enforceable. European law isn’t so wildly different to ours.

Hmm, interesting.

I'm now finding quite a bit of heated debate on Tripadvisor about this.

Topcat wrote: ↑Sat Nov 26, 2022 12:21 pm Although it is obviously easier to just pay it and be done with it, I would ignore it just to be bloody minded.

This!

I seriously can’t imagine that the Portuguese road authority will pursue you in the courts in England for £14 (and I imagine you’d have a good shout to argue that it’s unfair for you to be served with a penalty charge so long after the event when you can no longer reasonably get Avis to pay it), so I’d just ignore it

We literally wrote off a car 45 minutes after picking it up in Italy. They gave us a replacement, we were all fine... And that's the last we've heard of it. No one's answering our queries or started any of the processes for collecting excess and so on.

I guess I'll hear in 4 years?

File it into the bin and if the bailiffs do come knocking, you've moved house and didn't leave an address.

I'd pay - contributing to public infrastructure is something I'm happy to do. No idea if the payment goes to Avis or not but I wouldn't mind, assuming it ends up where it should be.

I got a speeding ticket from when we were in New Zealand. I was surprised because I'm Mrs Extra Careful on the road but the photo was pretty conclusive.
I decided to pay it to avoid any problems in the future if I returned to New Zealand. I didn't want to go all that way and be refused entry.
As it happens, there's now an NZETA scheme so I expect that would have picked me up so I'm glad I paid ss we're returning in February

absley wrote: ↑Sat Nov 26, 2022 6:31 pm I'd pay - contributing to public infrastructure is something I'm happy to do. No idea if the payment goes to Avis or not but I wouldn't mind, assuming it ends up where it should be.

It seems to be a UK collection agency acting on behalf of the company that runs the tolls. My guess is Avis's main involvement will have been giving them our address in the UK and thus getting shot of the problem their faulty bit of kit created. However, going from posts on Tripadvisor there's a lot of grumbling about the crap tech of the toll system and how this kind of situation (being chased 3 years or more after the fact) is not unusual.

Interesting variety of replies. At one point it was 100% ignore but that's shifted now!

I’d pay it too. It’s not much, you owed it, and I’d rather avoid any potential drama in the future (unlikely I know, but possible as Portugal’s taxes are pretty joined up).

It seems to be a UK collection agency acting on behalf of the company that runs the tolls

In which case it’s most likely the UK company have purchased the debt at a discount from the Portuguese company that runs the tolls on the basis that they get to keep any money they can collect from UK residents (it’s the only way this kind of scheme could ever be financially viable - international debt collection is ludicrously expensive). So if you’re worried about the infrastructure company, they will have already been paid a portion of the debt…

I think I’d pay just so that I didn’t have to worry about it any more

Lola wrote: ↑Sat Nov 26, 2022 10:22 pm I think I’d pay just so that I didn’t have to worry about it any more

This is basically my thinking. The "deadline" given for payment isn't until the new year so I can continue pondering for a while.

Livilla wrote: ↑Sat Nov 26, 2022 8:22 pm

It seems to be a UK collection agency acting on behalf of the company that runs the tolls

In which case it’s most likely the UK company have purchased the debt at a discount from the Portuguese company that runs the tolls on the basis that they get to keep any money they can collect from UK residents (it’s the only way this kind of scheme could ever be financially viable - international debt collection is ludicrously expensive).

I wondered if that might be the case.

Lola wrote: ↑Sat Nov 26, 2022 10:22 pm I think I’d pay just so that I didn’t have to worry about it any more

This is me exactly. I hate having things unresolved so it would be worth the financial outlay to know it was dealt with.

My first thought was to ignore and then I decided it was *just* £14 and I’d pay it.

It’s interesting to me though because we hired a car in Spain and drove it to Portugal. We followed all the instructions about linking your credit card to the number plate for tolls and automatic payment but I couldn’t find record of us when we tried to cancel it. I should get R to check his statements as it was his card. I’d forgotten all about it until now!

Cerise wrote: ↑Sat Nov 26, 2022 11:26 pm It’s interesting to me though because we hired a car in Spain and drove it to Portugal. We followed all the instructions about linking your credit card to the number plate for tolls and automatic payment but I couldn’t find record of us when we tried to cancel it. I should get R to check his statements as it was his card. I’d forgotten all about it until now!

That must be a new system and sounds much more accessible for own-car and cross-country travel. When we did it, it was get a transponder or you had to find a post office within 5 days of using the toll, give your number plate and pay. Which is not at ALL a ball ache.

Hope you can establish that you paid!

Now, as you enter Portugal, there are little booths that you drive to where they read your number plate and you tap your card. You’re supposed to log in to cancel it but it never seemed to work!