The Disappearance of Madeleine McCann (Netflix)

[Livilla]

As was Lindy Chamberland in Australia. I can’t Imagine how much worse things would have been for her (and let’s face it, they were pretty bad as it was ) if her daughter had disappeared in the social media age.

[Kenickie]

I think mothers definitely are judged differently.

If you're away with a group of other people with children who are doing the same thing then it must really normalise it.

[Ruby]

There's quite a few women who have been banged up because their reactions were judged to be off or because they didn't behave in the right way. Sally Clark as a "ruthless career woman" for example.

[Morganna]

I think mothers definitely are judged differently.

If you're away with a group of other people with children who are doing the same thing then it must really normalise it.

Yes to both of these things; but I don't think that Gerry McCann came over well either.

I would have hated to be in a group situation where everyone was going out and leaving children. I didn't do it with mine, and do remember one couple who we were friends with had very different views. It made things very awkward when either Mr M and I took turns to be with the children, or I went home early when Mr M had to leave go to work. It seemed like a criticism of their parenting, which is always awkward, and I'm sure it would have been worse if there had been a large group of parents.

[Kenickie]

The Sally Clark case was horrendous. I didn't realise she'd died afterwards from excessive alcohol. Completely tragic.

[Ruby]

I read a very interesting article a while ago ( no idea where now) which referenced Kate McCann, about how the media expect women to perform pain and judge them accordingly. I do think this was part of it; her reactions were forensically examined. As were Shannon Matthew's mums. More so than any of the men involved in either case.

The Shannon Matthews thing is interesting. I think there were a lot of comparisons made at the time between the two cases and how much more sympathetic the press were to the McCanns. I think this is where the 'they had it easy because they were middle class' idea comes from. But then it turns out that Shannon's mum was drugging her and hiding her in the bottom of a dodgy uncle's bed. And if you read up on the investigation then it's pretty clear the police and press knew there was something 'off' quite early on so there was probably a reason for the different approach. BUT by that time the narrative was out of the bag.

I think Shannon Matthew's situation - and the fact that the public had bought into it - probably led to a lot of backlash against Kate McCann in particular.

[Ella77]

Agreed, Bats, and if they have the temerity to be thin and well off with their own careers, fucking flog them.

[Ruby]

There's was a lot of snide stuff about Kate McCann being 'pictured with perfectly coiffed hair and full make-up'.

[rosy]

Absolutely, Ella. Kate McCann didn't conform to the DM version of the ideal mother-of-missing-child stereotype - how they have to look and act. Never mind that she had to keep some semblance of normal life going for the twins, she should have only have been seen weeping and tearing her hair out and never leaving her house.

The number of people who say "social services should have investigated" (they did) "and taken the twins away" (were the twins in any danger?) irritates me.

I have never met the McCanns but I know someone who knew them well at the time of Madeleine's disappearance (one of Kate McCann's partners in the GP practice where she then worked) - I know someone can never say definitively that a person does or doesn't have a capacity to murder, but the person I know remains adamant that they did not kill M or cover up her death.

[Lily]

I think that another thing is that for some reason the McCanns never came across as particularly likeable. I can't put my finger on it, but there was something - I don't know - unsympathetic - about the way they came across. It doesn't make them murderers, obviously; but I think a different couple might have had more public support.

I read a very interesting article a while ago ( no idea where now) which referenced Kate McCann, about how the media expect women to perform pain and judge them accordingly. I do think this was part of it; her reactions were forensically examined. As were Shannon Matthew's mums. More so than any of the men involved in either case.

Yes - cf Joanne Lees whose boyfriend Pete Falconio was murdered.

I have heard of several 'experts' saying Kate McCann looks like an abused woman and Gerry McCann a violent husband. I have a couple of friends in the police who were convinced that he beat her.

If you're away with a group of other people with children who are doing the same thing then it must really normalise it.

Yes, this.

[Lily]

I think that another thing is that for some reason the McCanns never came across as particularly likeable. I can't put my finger on it, but there was something - I don't know - unsympathetic - about the way they came across. It doesn't make them murderers, obviously; but I think a different couple might have had more public support.

I wonder if it is because they didn't accept they did anything wrong? At least not in public.

[Luce]

I get so, so cross at the judging of how people display grief. Amanda Knox, for example. It's just so short-sighted, not to mention incredible dangerous.

Saying that, the weepers always make me think of crocodile tears so I suppose you can't win.

[Duophonic]

You're right you really can't win.

I judge them due to the circumstances of leaving the kids alone, if it'd been a random one off I'd be more sympathetic but again I'm really cautious by nature so doing it myself would never have crossed my mind.

I've recently looked at the timeline and we really only have their evidence to go on and it's probably due to the huge amounts of true crime I absorb but I just feel a random snatching is exactly that, too random and we only really have their word that the kids were all together and ok. I suppose I'm just really hardened to crime stories that nothing people do really surprise me anymore and I never underestimate the power of self preservation.

Unless a body is found/someone is arrested/cracks/whatever we'll never know what really happened.

[Lily]

Random snatchings happen an awful lot though. Poor little Sophie Hook was camping in her own garden. Were her parents negligent in letting her and her siblings camp out? It's something we used to do as little ones, but I can imagine a parent thinking twice now, like in Liv's scenario.

[Turtle Bean]

As well, I feel a bit sick typing this but MM was an exceptionally beautiful little girl and may well have drawn attention due to that. So it might not have been as random as it seems.

[Luna]

I was nearly snatched from outside my grandparents house when I was about 7 or 8 :eek:
I was playing hopscotch or something and a bloke stopped and started talking to me and then asked if I wanted to go to the newsagent down the road with him to get some milk gums. I hated milk gums and said no and shot back in the house. My nana came out to look for him but he had gone. It made me think that I could've disappeared in the blink of an eye really.

[smalex]

I went out to play with a friend of mine who lived in the next road, when I was maybe 9 or 10. A guy came along and said he'd lost something in the grass verge and asked us to help find it, then he said he wanted to take photos of my friend and I was to carry on looking for the 'thing' in the grass verge. He took loads of photos of her and then went on his way. Isn't it fucked up my abiding memory of that incident is the realisation some years later that he wanted photos of her and not me because she was prettier than me?

Anyway, there's a right load of wierdos around.

[Luna]

Another lucky escape!

[Lily]

Isn't it fucked up my abiding memory of that incident is the realisation some years later that he wanted photos of her and not me because she was prettier than me?

I'd say it's a pretty normal reaction from a kid. I am glad he didn't get either of you - nor you, Luna. Horrible.

In the Sophie Hook situation the killer had been watching the children playing in the garden for most of the day - perhaps a paedophile could have been watching the McCann family the same way, and got to know their routine.