Simon Baron-Cohen can stuff right off

[Ruby]

Also, I was being polite about the drinking. :))

[Bat Macdui]

:lol: It's nice you were polite, but a bit much that you tried to kill me with champagne. :verm:

[Rebel Pebble]

Also, did you know, loads of autistic women choose an acting type route? It helps with the masking, hugely. :)

i saw that in one of your links. It does NOT surprise me at all. And I know I like spending the day pretending to be other people.

I rather enjoyed all the motorway stuff. :))

[Bat Macdui]

To pick a few more things up.

People post diagnosis do 'get a bit more autistic'. It's mostly just because they put much less of an effort into masking. I am 'more autistic' now. I can't be arsed wasting eye contact. I am unfailing over polite, which is something I've done lifelong, to over compensate for accidentally seeming rude a few times, but I frankly can't be bothered doing the work to match up eye contact and body language at the same time as processing what you're saying to me and trying to hear you. I don't know if you'd notice a difference now if you met up with me, but that's because I actually have no real idea of how I came across before, because I working so hard at being 'alright'.

The gender/gay thing is fascinating, but that's a whole other Members Only thread I will do someday. I'm thinking of writing something for 4 th W.ave about it. If I'd been a teenager now, in 20018, I'd be on puberty blockers/cross hormones by now. Hence full T.ERF.

The diagnosis for me was hugely validating. I know other women who are perfectly happy being self-diagnosed. I needed told I think because there was so much self doubt and also because I was stuck in this hinterland, thinking I was neither autistic nor normal, but in some horrible space in between. A lot of post diagnostic stuff talks about finding your tribe, and there's a certain accuracy to this. I have found women who have had similar experiences to me, and it's been invaluable.


As a general FYI the A think is Alexithymia. It means that whilst I have feelings and emotions, I struggle to recognise what they are. If you ask me how I'm feeling now, I can't tell you, but I will probably have worked it out by Tuesday. It's not just an autism thing, it's present across the whole population, but seems relatively common in autistic people. It's what made me think I was a sociopath, I couldn't summon up feelings that felt to me the way I saw other people express them. It's also why I've had huge anxiety issues. I had anxiety, but didn't realise I had it. Which sounds weird, yes, I know. It was only when I read a post on here by Shoe describing how anxiety made her feel physically (sweaty palms, racing heart, nausea) that I realised I had those physical symptoms, so I probably had anxiety too.

I've derailed myself again. Soz.

[Smunder Woman]

I file that under 'WHY THE FUCK DID NO-ONE MENTION THIS TO ME??' Yes, I am giving YOU a Look, Ruby. :))

:)) I will try to answer this semi-earnestly. I have always thought that people who were clearly a bit autistic ... were just a bit autistic and that's fine. I find people's 'obsessions' interesting and I don't like touching anyway and I am 100% comfortable with them. It hadn't occurred to me that they didn't know, or that they would feel better with a diagnosis. People going for an autism diagnosis has always puzzled me in a way - I didn't know why people needed what I perceived as validation for their personality. It hadn't really occurred to me that people needed an explanation and not just validation - and that diagnosis could provide a sort of road-map for their feelings. It was when you told me about [long word beginning with an A that means you don't know what you're feeling] that it occurred to me that some people might just need to be told they're autistic.

Yes, for me it's about knowing more about myself. I'm mostly ok now, but I really struggled for years, and I'd like to know why. It's similar to how I felt relieved when Jack got diagnosed, because it meant it wasn't just that I was a shit parent :))

I've been diagnosing people for years :lol:

[bramblerose]

This is all so thought provoking* and interesting.

*Even for me who doesn't do deep thoughts

[overthehill]

Also, did you know, loads of autistic women choose an acting type route? It helps with the masking, hugely. :)

Thanks, also, for giving us all a bit of an outlet to talk about people we know. R and I have been sure, for some time, that his brother, M, is somewhere on the spectrum. Recently, he's been having some sort of additional mental health issues, but R has always rather resented his bluntness and general non-communication. He's retired now, but he worked for years as a computer engineer - one of Seimens Nixdorf's most senior - and it always struck the family that he never took promotion to management. He was just much happier being presented with a problem to fix, than having to do all the tiresome organisational and planning stuff. :))

Interestingly, and probably quite coincidentally, M's younger daughter is an actress. If she is anywhere on the spectrum, she masks it spectacularly well, but autism does run in families sometimes, doesn't it?

We have two very good female friends here - a mother and daughter - who are both diagnosed autistic, as are a number of other family members. Without going into huge detail, though their particular traits are noticeable, they are all entirely different from one another in how they interact with the world in general. (Mum is a member of our book club, reading probably 10-times more than any of the rest of us, :lol: and the daughter is a horticulturalist who single-handedly manages a huge organic vegetable garden for the local luxury hotel - a job that, she says, has literally saved her life.)

[Ruby]

but a bit much that you tried to kill me with champagne. :verm:

But what a way to go?

[Bat Macdui]

Even when I was drinking I hated bloody champagne. :verm:

Autism is caused by genetic and environmental factors. No-one really know what they mean by environmental factors, they're basically just hedging their bets a bit. A load of the autistic women getting diagnosed now have gone through the route of having their child diagnosed then going 'oh, yeah, that kind of rings true for me as well'.

[viggy]

Can I just say though, that your obsession with the M60 was a huge klaxon?

Also, did you know, loads of autistic women choose an acting type route? It helps with the masking, hugely. :)

This is interesting! I did a day's training on autism years ago when I worked for a youth theatre it was all very much geared towards the importance of routine, quiet space etc - basically the total opposite of a drama workshop! We had a boy diagnosed with aspergers, who we could make reasonable adjusments for, and everyone just accepted that was the way he rolled. But I always wondered why someone with autism/aspergers would choose to attend a drama class in the first place.

We also had a girl in another class who I knew for about a year before the penny dropped for me. We were playing a game one day where we had to match a facial expression to a hat and she just couldn't do it. She was a lovely girl, but prone to getting frustrated in group work when things didn't go her way, saying really blunt things sometimes, often a lack of eye contact, and although she was keen to behave, she would sometimes completely ignore verbal warnings...like if she had checked out and was ignoring me and I said something obtuse like "Oh come ON, Becky". :ella: at me. Anyway, her very engaged parents had said nothing, and obviously I was only putting a few things together and guessing...but when I started making sure I was more explicit in my language, and gently challenging her bluntness by asking her if she realised that was a rude thing to say, everything improved massively, particularly in terms of how she got on with her peers.

She ended up becoming a massive goth and hanging around with a group of girls similarly obsessed with the same music etc, and I was so chuffed she found her niche and some confidence. To this day, I have no idea if her parents knew and didn't want her labelled, or if the school picked up on anything, and it didn't feel like my place to say. It just made me a bit sad for her, because putting autism-friendly* adjustments in place for her made a massive difference.

*no idea if this is the correct parlance, I was totally winging it

[mojojojo]

Thank you, Bats. That’s all so interesting and helpful. I’m glad it’s helpful for you to share it too.

[Ruby]

Even when I was drinking I hated bloody champagne. :verm:

Accidentally politely enabling alcoholism is going to be my TED talk.

[Marth]

Even when I was drinking I hated bloody champagne. :verm:

Accidentally politely enabling alcoholism is going to be my TED talk.

:lol:

[Shoe]

Also. I would like to know how many people, after reading this thread, have diagnosed themselves or a family member as being autistic. :lol:

The more I read the more I wonder about myself but then I dont know if that's just my (diagnosed) anxiety just makes me desperate for a reason why I behave in (what I deem as) atypical ways at times or struggle with certain situations. :lol:

It's so interesting, I find the whole subject fascinating, moreso now I have had close experience of several people on the spectrum. My gut feeling is that neurotypical is bollocks and we just don't know enough yet to realise this. I definitely feel like it's very much a spectrum, a bit like sexuality.

Please continue to educate us, Bats. :))

[Rebel Pebble]

My gut feeling is that neurotypical is bollocks and we just don't know enough yet to realise this. I definitely feel like it's very much a spectrum, a bit like sexuality.

I wonder this too. In much the same way I think that normal/socially acceptable has been narrowly and selfishly defined over the years by male extraverts.

[overthehill]

Also. I would like to know how many people, after reading this thread, have diagnosed themselves or a family member as being autistic. :lol:

Thinking about R's brother, we now wonder whether his mum might also be on the spectrum. It would make sense. Poor B, the family always laughed at her complete absence of a sense of humour. We once had both mums to stay at Christmas, and even my mum noticed it. I don't mean that B just doesn't find things funny, she genuinely doesn't ever seem to understand what people are laughing at. People have often had to spell it out for her. And, then, it's the funniest thing that ever happened, and she will repeat the 'joke' to anyone who'll listen. :ella: She's certainly one of those people who operate best within a well-ordered environment. She worked as a nurse and then for British Rail, procuring spares for their rolling stock, and then as a book-keeper - her mental arithmetic skills were legendary! R's dad was quite a lot older than her, and came from a very traditional, rural Irish family. He had very fixed ideas about a woman's place in the home. When B retired, R and M would constantly nag her to get out and about, take up a hobby, maybe start a little catering business - but their dad disapproved. The truth was probably that B found the boundaries set by her husband quite comforting and her world completely fell apart when he died.

[Loralei]

Also. I would like to know how many people, after reading this thread, have diagnosed themselves or a family member as being autistic. :lol:

Oh god, I'm surprised you didn't hear the penny drop from where you are when I put all this in the context of my MIL :)). Seriously though, I know most people on here can't believe that she would give me the presents she does unless she actively hated me (and I genuinely don't think she does, although we utterly perplex each other), and her refusal to look after J&B when I was in labour with TD unless we could guarantee it would be for no more than 2.5 hours makes more sense. She suffers huge anxiety, has mild-moderate OCD and a lifelong eating disorder, and never really managed to do well professionally in spite of being very good at what she did. If I think of her in terms of really struggling with the networking/social stuff/ having to spend time with people she doesn't like then it's a lot easier to be sympathetic.

I do wonder if there's a risk of all kinds of neurodiverse people being put under the heading of autism, especially by those of us who have just enough knowledge to be really wrong, but I suppose if it comes with understanding then there are worse first steps.

P is currently having one of those moments we talk about when your partner doesn't take you seriously until they hear the same thing from a bloke, as he's mentioned before that he thinks his mum has autistic traits and has also had concerns about Berty for years, but as I find MH professionals tend to love diagnosing anyone who comes within ten feet of them I haven't given it much credence, but now I have ordered books that Bats has recommended and keep asking if he knew stuff and he's all, "YES. And I told you that ages ago! :verm: " :lol:

On a slight tangent re the neurotypical language, Cerise once called me out on using the word 'normal. (I'd never dream of using it as the opposite of autistic because I'm right on, see, but had probably said something about my children refusing to pretend to be normals, or something equally hilarious ) and it has made me catch myself every time I go to use it now. This isn't really related except that we have so far to go in terms of the language of mental health.

[rosy]

That cartoon has really changed my thinking, thank you. And I'm outing my son P as on the spectrum - so much that you've said, Bats, describes him to a T. I've always thought of him as just a bit introverted with some dyspraxia, a really bad intention tremor, and an obsession with American politics. But being able to pull it all together makes so much sense.

[Jet]

Also. I would like to know how many people, after reading this thread, have diagnosed themselves or a family member as being autistic. :lol:

for the spreadsheet :)) I’m scared to read too much more :lol: Also, my Dad has always displayed some Asperger’s tendencies and his Dad was also similar. I’m a bit scared to read any more

[smalex]

I know this is such an obvious comment really but wouldn't it be SO much better if it were better diagnosed and understood (by everyone). My very best and oldest friend has a brother with Aspergers (that was his diagnosis so I feel I've got to use that term). Only diagnosed in his mid 30's after he recognised it in himself. Childhood was incredibly difficult in their house, because of that (and a few other circumstances which conspired), and it's caused (or at least, deeply exacerbated) my friend with a lifetime of mental health problems which she's only got a hold on in the last 5 years (extreme agrophobia, panic attacks, depression, at least one break down, periods of feeling suicidal). He works (in a good job, although he tells A to Fuck off if she asks him more about it) but isn't capable of living out of home, and the situation between him and their mum (who is the second part of all the issues, really) is still completely toxic.
It honestly makes me tearful thinking about how it might have been different if this had been recognised in him at an earlier stage, for everyone involved.