Pistorius trial

[Bastian]

Yes, it's been said many times that fear in your home is not unusual in SA. If it's that, or if it's domestic violence (I heard a shocking statistic last night about the number of deaths of women being at the hands of their 'intimate partner') these are things which need examining anyway. I would have thought.

If he was so pinged with 'roid raged that he repeatedly shot at a locked door with a being behind it, that's another factor. IMO.

Paddy Power should be taken down IMO.

[Tabitha]

Is that what all the Paddy Power rage is about? :eek: I thought it was something to do with the Oscars.

:)) An Oscar, not the Oscars.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 63814.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Zoomer]

The Paddy Power thing is disgraceful.

I'm still hoping (aganst hope) that it was all a tragic accident, but more for her sake than for his. I don't like to think about how scared and panic-stricken she must have been if she knew her boyfriend was coming after her with a gun.

[Dáire]

Ms Burger has some cracking hearing - 180m/590 feet and she heard all manner of words like 'help' as well as two people screaming. She opines about it 'must have been a house break-in' and casually assumes the husband has been shot in front of the wife. I wonder if she called the police at the time, or just remembered all this later?

I'm following it, for the sheer cheek of the defence case. How they're keeping a straight face when introducing evidence like 'well, he screams like a girl' is beyond me.

Did they say that?! :eek: :sman:

The defence haven't spoken yet, I don't think, but I think they're going to bring a witness to support their claim the screams were Pistorious after he found it was her. They'll also give evidence to show Reeva could not have screamed due to injuries sustained, which seems pretty compelling.

He shot repeatedly at a caged *'person'. I don't see how he's not guilty really.

No one's debating that he did it, just whether it was an accident or not. Technically it's still murder as he shot to kill the intruder. If it was a dead burglar, it would still be murder. I don't know if SA law has different degrees of murder - is it still a different crime there to kill an intruder, to murder your partner in cold blood or accidentally shoot a loved one? They must have distinctions.

There are plenty of people in other countries who've shot loved ones by accident, thinking they were burglars, or deer. There was one around the same time where a girl jumped out of the wardrobe at her boyfriend for a joke and was shot to death, and the reaction was very different. Generally the media response is "guns are bad" and "those poor people, living with that". I've not seen another case suddenly swing into cold-blooded murder with such certainty.

he definitely murdered someone; the only question is whether he thought he was murdering a burglar or his gf. I don't really see what difference it makes, particularly.

Killing girlfriends is a bit worse than shooting an intruder, surely? Especially when intruders are very likely to kill you.

[Shoe]

Is that what all the Paddy Power rage is about? :eek: I thought it was something to do with the Oscars.

:)) An Oscar, not the Oscars.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 63814.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I just saw a gold statue and Oscar and clearly decided they were upsetting the film folk. :lol: It's mental that they are allowed to take votes on his trial. :eek:

[ParisGal]

he definitely murdered someone; the only question is whether he thought he was murdering a burglar or his gf. I don't really see what difference it makes, particularly.

Killing girlfriends is a bit worse than shooting an intruder, surely? Especially when intruders are very likely to kill you.

It certainly makes him a much worse person, and if it was a pre-meditated murder, should carry a higher sentence. But I don't feel a huge distinction between shooting person A or B through a locked door. In neither case it could be self defence.

[nick]

It may be a cynical view, but flying into a violent rage and murdering his girlfriend seems to fit the facts very well; the 'intruder' story doesn't ring true at all.

[Lily]

It could be self defence if the intruder had a gun.

I just don't get wanting to murder your girlfriend with a gun - it's not something you could do quietly. I do know people who have attacked others in their sleep - my brother has night terrors and his girlfriend has woken up a couple of times with him hitting her. I don't know how it would feel if I had no legs and thought/dreamt someone was in my room. But going for them with a gun just seems a bit OTT.

[Tabitha]

I just don't get wanting to murder your girlfriend with a gun - it's not something you could do quietly.

That's not relevant though, if done in temper rather than planned.

[lazzikins!]

It could be self defence if the intruder had a gun.

No, because he never saw the "intruder" so couldn't have known the "intruder" was armed.

[Topcat]

Lazbo is going to visit him in prison.

[Starry]

But the facts haven't actually been established yet, besides the fact that she was killed and he shot her, have they? That's what the trial is for. Well, at least both sides get to present what they see as the facts.

Truth is only two people know what actually happened for certain, and one of them is unable to speak for herself.

[lazzikins!]

Lazbo is going to visit him in prison.

You know me so well.

[cluefree]

I don't understand why a person would not instinctively reach for the partner that was meant to be lying next to them if they heard a possible intruder.

The Paddy Power thing is awful.

[faith]

It could be self defence if the intruder had a gun.

No, because he never saw the "intruder" so couldn't have known the "intruder" was armed.

In SA intruders are armed. Don't know the stats, but it's generally a given. If you have a break in, rape and murder is not unlikely.

[Bastian]

Is that part of their law though?

[Cosmopolitan]

Depends on the circumstances. Generally people are not prosecuted for shooting armed intruders.

It is rare to get an unarmed intruder but usually they tend to try and chloroform-bomb the house before entering to keep people who live there sedated while they rob it. So hearing a strange noise outside a window could be the start of that.

[smalex]

Is that the theory then, if he did murder her and totally knew what he was doing, that he had 'roid rage and went nuts and shot her?

[Dáire]

But I don't feel a huge distinction between shooting person A or B through a locked door. In neither case it could be self defence.

Home invasions in SA generally end in torture, rape and murder. It's a huge cultural fear. Shooting one can only be self-defence - surely no one could advocate waiting for the intruder to throw the first punch or wait until you're absolutely sure your life's in danger?

US security advice for SA: https://www.osac.gov/pages/contentrepor ... ?cid=12014" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Of particular concern for American citizens living in South Africa are home invasion robberies. These crimes are often violent in nature and can occur at any time in the day. In many cases, criminals prefer the occupant is home because the residential alarm is off and the occupant can identify where valuables are located. The recently released South African Police Service (SAPS) 2011 crime statistics indicate that the number of home invasions remains at an alarmingly high rate, with a total of 7,039 reported in Gauteng Province alone (Gauteng Province includes the cities of Johannesburg and Pretoria). Measures to combat home invasions should include several layers of residential security including perimeter walls, alarms, and grills on windows. Vehicle gates should also be equipped with anti-lift brackets, as criminals have been known to use crowbars and pneumatic jacks to lift gates off their tracks.

'Fear in SA':

A victims of crime report last year found that six out of 10 South Africans feared burglary more than any other crime and felt less safe in their homes than they did a year previously. As a result, experts say massive numbers of people are continuing to resort to the use of private security firms.

"People are definitely resorting to using private security companies. The main reason people give you is that they have a lack of faith in the police, both because of corruption and because of the lack of training. The police don't have the skills to deal with crime situations effectively," said Seldon.

It just doesn't seem a stretch at all that a wealthy double amputee would be consumed with fear at the thought of a long night of rape and torture ahead, especially when that fear is so culturally pervasive. Everyone's afraid. Yes, why didn't he check, but every single gun accident ever has the conclusion why didn't they check - loaded guns handled by children, families shooting their loved ones on the driveway in error. If anything, this case will put SA's culture of fear under a spotlight and maybe address what can be done about that - as far as I can tell, they still suppress many crime statistics, and with no faith in the police people will turn to private means of protection.

[la Fée Verte]

Also armed intruder or not, it's shitty and irresponsible at best to shoot four times at one through a door.