Simon Baron-Cohen can stuff right off

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Hamm
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Re: Simon Baron-Cohen can stuff right off

Post by Hamm »

Ruby wrote: Sun Sep 09, 2018 10:31 am Can I just say though, that your obsession with the M60 was a huge klaxon?
Was that the same time as logging the Ford Ka speed on hills and consumption of fuel?

L is on the spectrum so the complete focus on a topic does pass me by most days, R is undiagnosed but very similar. I always see it as worst a bit boring but just who they are.
And you've never been anything but funny, kind and absolutely supportive. I understand why general disclosure is not always welcome but it didn't stop you "outing" yourself to reassure me and tell me what to expect, years ago. That's more kindness and empathy I'd expect from anyone.
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Re: Simon Baron-Cohen can stuff right off

Post by olive »

This thread has been so eye opening and I agree that ‘normal’ now has such a narrow and inaccurate definition. Having a label doesn’t suddenly have the same negative connotations that it would have had years ago. Although I don’t know whether it’s because I’m in the US now and things like this are much more widely accepted and talked about openly?

One of T’s best friends in the UK was diagnosed with Aspergers (aged 7) and at the risk of sounding melodramatic he’s like a different child since the diagnosis. The understanding and subsequent accommodations for him have made a world of difference to his confidence. You can really see how life would have been so different for him and his whole family if it was missed/ignored.

Ruby can add me to the spreadsheet of wondering who fits as T has been flagged as likely ADHD/ dyspraxic. There is such a big crossover between with that and autism (obsessive on specific topics/ lack of eye contact etc) that I’m finding it hard to know whether you can definitively be one, another or a bit of everything?

Is that something you came across whilst being diagnosed? Same for Smunder too?
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Smunder Woman
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Re: Simon Baron-Cohen can stuff right off

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Olive, Jack also has both physical and verbal dyspraxia, and that is what we/professionals initially thought his ASD was. Having a diagnosis does make a difference. Even if it doesn't mean you need extra support officially, emotionally it makes things easier. Plus you can provide support where it is needed. If I ever go to prison, it will be for killing someone who says "but I don't want to label him/her" :ruby:
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Re: Simon Baron-Cohen can stuff right off

Post by Luce »

Oh god and we were all commenting on how good you looked when you went through that very thin stage. Sorry for enabling, Bats.

Is it rude to say you're not surprised if someone tells you they're autistic? Is it rude to say you are surprised? I assume context is everything there.
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Re: Simon Baron-Cohen can stuff right off

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Santa Claude wrote: Sun Sep 09, 2018 5:14 pm Oh god and we were all commenting on how good you looked when you went through that very thin stage. Sorry for enabling, Bats.
You probs didn't see her when she was really thin, or you would have tried to ram a pie down her throat.
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Re: Simon Baron-Cohen can stuff right off

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I don't think it's rude either way, assuming you're not saying either with a totally disgusted facial expression :))

Ive told about 5 people face to face so far, two were Shoe and Tits - Shoe was not surprised, Tits was. Two were my PhD supervisors - one was impressively poker faced but supportive, while the other laughed and said "fuck off, you're just getting too involved in your research" but then we had a really good chat about it (you can guess which one I know better 😂), during which he did the AQ test and scored quite highly himself :)) The last one was one of my closest friends, who wasn't massivley surprised, but hadn't guessed either. All different responses, and I didn't find any rude, if that helps.
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Re: Simon Baron-Cohen can stuff right off

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Ruby wrote: Sun Sep 09, 2018 5:28 pm
Santa Claude wrote: Sun Sep 09, 2018 5:14 pm Oh god and we were all commenting on how good you looked when you went through that very thin stage. Sorry for enabling, Bats.
You probs didn't see her when she was really thin, or you would have tried to ram a pie down her throat.
Ah, ok! I remember you in that lovely 40s style dress and hair and we were all oohing and aahing but I also remember your friends all telling you gently to stop now so that is when I decided probs best to shut up :))
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Re: Simon Baron-Cohen can stuff right off

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Santa Claude wrote: Sun Sep 09, 2018 5:14 pm Is it rude to say you're not surprised if someone tells you they're autistic? Is it rude to say you are surprised? I assume context is everything there.
This is exactly why I behaved like such a fanny when Smurf told me. I wasn't surprised and it made sense but just as I was about to say that I suddenly thought that might be really rude so instead I did a really long, head tilty pause and then started stammering at poor Smurf. :lol:

I try never to say 'normal' now after I clumsily hit a nerve when one of our friends told us about his newly diagnosed son. I'm really careful about my language now. Not least because I don't believe there is such a thing as a 'normal' brain.
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Re: Simon Baron-Cohen can stuff right off

Post by Luce »

That does help, Smunder. I do wonder if it's harder for people who know you really well to be able to see it, also. Like, they're just so used to how you are. But a relative stranger on a forum, say, might spot it more easily.

I'm just pondering out loud, now. But I did always think you were joking about the M60, Bats. I thought it was just an in-joke that I didn't get :))
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Re: Simon Baron-Cohen can stuff right off

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I think avoiding dropping your voice and doing a sepulchral 'I'm sorry' is best, but otherwise it's all context and the person. :))

Eating disorders and autism are interesting, for me it was never really about being thin, it was about control and numbers (calories in, numbers on the scale) and then because if I get in a routine I find it incredibly hard to break out of that routine, it becomes a bit self fulfilling. I know loads of autistic women who say the same, and also there's a bit chunk of sensory issues in there. If you have real sensory problems with taste, and the texture of food in your mouth, it leads to Avoidant Restrictive Eating Disorder, which still looks like anorexia, but the treatments are different.

There is totally so much overlap, Olive. Up until quite recently, it was thought you couldn't have autism *and* ADHD so loads of people ended up with the wrong diagnosis, or not enough recognition of what was causing their problems, or just missed completely. I think I probably have a good chunk of ADHD and I am thinking about going for diagnosis in the future. Partly because I think it's important to be in the stats and partly because some days I get so utterly frustrated with myself that I am just GIVE ME THE FUCKING RITALIN. Of course, like autism, ADHD is considered to be the province of unruly boys and women don't have it. There's also different types - you can have ADD without the hyperactivity, which means so many girls get missed because they're not thrill seekers, they're staring out the window. :))

There's an overlap in what is called executive function (or executive dysfunction) between autism and ADHD. Executive function basically is your ability to actually do stuff. My executive function is hopeless, which is why I think I have ADHD traits. I have lists in three rooms in the house so I can double check myself before I go to work, otherwise something will get missed (deoderant, filling the cat's water, taking my lunch). If I have an appointment at 3pm, I cannot function before it, because I get a kind of weird paralysis. My procrastination is terrifying, way way beyond 'I should probably do this now'. My short term memory is garbage. I start one thing then another becomes imperative so I abandon the first and wander downstairs in my pants to google soft furnishings. :) I often say that my biggest problem is that I have an autistic's need for things to be ordered and sorted, yet a complete inability to make this all so. It frustrates me hugely and one of the best things about the diagnosis was giving myself a break on this one. I don't beat myself up anymore about it, and I use comedy methods to manage, like post-its on fucking everything.
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Re: Simon Baron-Cohen can stuff right off

Post by Bat Macdui »

Santa Claude wrote: Sun Sep 09, 2018 5:41 pmI'm just pondering out loud, now. But I did always think you were joking about the M60, Bats. I thought it was just an in-joke that I didn't get :))
Never less than deadly serious. :lol: I keep toying with fishing out my novel about it and turning it into a short story. I am also deadly serious about that.
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Re: Simon Baron-Cohen can stuff right off

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It also explains your stopping smoking distress. And I've no idea where you are with that now so I apologise if that was a clumsy thing to say. And stopping smoking is a nightmare for anyone so I don't want to minimise that either. But I can well imagine, after all you've said in this thread, how that something that is already hard would then be nigh on impossible.
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Re: Simon Baron-Cohen can stuff right off

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Santa Claude wrote: Sun Sep 09, 2018 6:15 pm It also explains your stopping smoking distress. And I've no idea where you are with that now so I apologise if that was a clumsy thing to say. And stopping smoking is a nightmare for anyone so I don't want to minimise that either. But I can well imagine, after all you've said in this thread, how that something that is already hard would then be nigh on impossible.
Yes! All that howling crying. :lol: Knowing myself better means I think I have a better chance of it. I'm half fags half vape stick thing at the moment, and to be honest, just the actual cutting down the proper fags feels like a bit of a miracle.
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Re: Simon Baron-Cohen can stuff right off

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Bat Macdui wrote: Sun Sep 09, 2018 6:11 pm Eating disorders and autism are interesting, for me it was never really about being thin, it was about control and numbers (calories in, numbers on the scale) and then because if I get in a routine I find it incredibly hard to break out of that routine, it becomes a bit self fulfilling. I know loads of autistic women who say the same, and also there's a bit chunk of sensory issues in there. If you have real sensory problems with taste, and the texture of food in your mouth, it leads to Avoidant Restrictive Eating Disorder, which still looks like anorexia, but the treatments are different.
MIL has never been diagnosed with anorexia (except by me :DrLora: ) but I can well imagine that her extreme thinness and food aversion is related to sensory issues rather than a desire to be thin (although she is also utterly caustic about fat people, i.e. anyone above a size 8, so who knows). And definitely control/OCD. She once developed an obsession with carrots so ate nothing else for weeks and went quite orange from all the betacarotine.

P is jumping on my hard-won interest by sending me stuff about ADD/ADHD and girls, and I found this very interesting (and, with the exception of hyperactivity, it describes Berty to a T).
https://www.verywellmind.com/adhd-in-gi ... irls-20547
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Re: Simon Baron-Cohen can stuff right off

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I think my friend just sees me as an anxious introvert, and didn't consider I may be autistic. But she's now diagnosing half the women she knows :))

Shoe, you weren't a fanny, but it was funny.

Ok, I am at a computer now, so I shall explain some (probably boring) PhD stuff. The title is T.hreshold C.oncepts A.cross K.nowledge L.evels, With a Focus on Autism Spectrum Disorders. The knowledge levels are from a model that my first supervisor made, whereby you start at novice level, and progress through (usually some of) the remaining four. It's based on an earlier psychology model, so covers cognitive schemata and how many you need to develop to progress to the next level. It's a bit more understandable to think of the schemata as building blocks so you start at 0, then move to the next level at 1,000, the next at 10,000 etc. The top level is grandmaster, like chess grandmasters, and it's very rare for people to reach this stage, and it's unheard of to reach it in more than one field. Grandmaster level is Nobel Laureate type stuff. I don't fully agree with the model, but that's a different story.

Threshold concepts are a fairly new education thing, like a magnified version of the penny dropping. The kind of thing that, once you've learned it, you can't unlearn it, and it changes your view of everything you learned before. It also makes everything fall into place, things that you have struggled to get to grips with before, so is more of an identity change than just learning something. Say the change from an accounting student to an accountant or something. Anyway, these are also based on cognitive schemata.

My dissertation last year focused on bringing the two together, and I basically came to the conclusion that a threshold concept is the last schema needed to switch from one knowledge level to the next. Sorry, I know this is all incredibly wanky and pretentious :)) Anyway, the PhD topic was my supervisors' idea, and is looking at whether this process is different in those with ASD and neurotypical people. As I'm doing the PhD in a business school, it will focus a bit on learning organisations and organisational learning too - I suppose possibly helping with careers etc and making it all more accommodating for those on the spectrum. It's very early days though, and I'm very much winging it still.

The issue I've got now is, this was all proposed assuming I am NT, so it would be helpful to know what perspective I'm actually looking at this from :lol:

If any of that doesn't make sense, and anyone can be bothered, I am happy to answer any questions. I have put . in the title because I'm paranoid in case someone ever googles it and finds me :mog:
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Re: Simon Baron-Cohen can stuff right off

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I didn't really understand any of that Smun but it sounds incredibly clever. I am (as before) in awe of what you're achieving.

Cam you two co-author a book or something please?? :disco:
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Blimey bat's, I had no idea. Thank you for all the posts. I have a Facebook friend that was diagnosed recently and a lot of what you've said is helpful (as well as interesting)

And yes, I did momentarily wonder if I'm on the spectfum, but I think it's just that I'm socially inept with anxiety.
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Re: Simon Baron-Cohen can stuff right off

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smalex wrote: Sun Sep 09, 2018 6:33 pm I didn't really understand any of that Smun but it sounds incredibly clever. I am (as before) in awe of what you're achieving.

Cam you two co-author a book or something please?? :disco:
It's ok, I don't really understand much of it either yet :))

We should! Bats, let's write a book! Original and Other Susans Navigate the Spectrum.
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Re: Simon Baron-Cohen can stuff right off

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Smunder Woman wrote: Sun Sep 09, 2018 6:38 pm We should! Bats, let's write a book! Original and Other Susans Navigate the Spectrum.
:mog: Totally up for this.

I don't really get Smunder's PhD either, but I think it's very exciting. :frolic:
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Re: Simon Baron-Cohen can stuff right off

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Smunder Woman wrote: Sun Sep 09, 2018 6:38 pm We should! Bats, let's write a book! Original and Other Susans Navigate the Spectrum.
:mog: Totally up for this.

I don't really get Smunder's PhD either, but I think it's very exciting. :frolic:
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